Differing opinions on second baby

[Dogmum15]

Hi everyone, I'm just writing this post to see if I am being completely irrational and to gather some advice from those who have maybe been through the same situation.

I have a lovely son who is two years old via IVF which was privately funded. We were extremely lucky to have a successful round first time and we have 8 embryos in the freezer.

I work in an extremely busy job which requires shift work. I am a senior in my role so therefore I have quite a bit of responsibility in work. I have tried and failed to get reduced hours as I just feel I am more a work to live sort of person and not a live to work as I love being a mum and being home with my little boy.

Anyway, several months ago I broached the topic with my husband of trying for a second baby as I am approaching mid 30s and would like to get started sooner rather than later. He was very much up for the trying naturally, however several months later we were still recieving bfn, so I suggested going down the IVF route again as we have the embryos there and my mental health was extremely bad the last time due to trying for years and being continuously disappointed. When I mentioned the going down the IVF route my husband shut it down straight away, told me I was being ridiculous and that we wouldn't be able to afford it. At most we would be paying 2000 pound for this round, which Includes medication whereas before it was easily 10,000 due to having to go through egg retrieval. I feel that this is where him and I aren't on the same page. We have more than enough money in savings to cover the cost, plus we both have two very good jobs that would work to pay it off in several months time but every time I broach the topic with him he shuts me down and just says we can't afford it and to not bring it up again.

This is really causing a divide in our relationship as I very much want another child soon and I feel this is something I can't negotiate on. I feel like I put a lot of work in to IVF and now it's being wasted as he doesn't want to use the embryos. I am starting to feel very low over the whole situation and I know I should be more than happy with my beautiful son but I just love being a mum so much that I want to add another little one to the gang.

What would you all suggest I do, or how do I go about getting an actual conversation out of him.

Encase you are wondering it was male factor infertility as to why we had to go for IVF in the first place. The procedure we had was ICSI.

Thank you all very much for taking the time to read this and any responses at all will be welcomed. I am maybe being irrational in my feelings over this.

Im sorry your not being heard. Wanting a baby is a very strong feeling and in my opinion, nothing you do can shut it down. When I wanted another baby my husband did not, so I didnt bring it up again until I couldnt hold it back anymore. I asked my husband if we could have an open discussion about it without an argument and talk about all the pros and cons. Some people are happy with just one child and your husband may never change his mind or may have his own reasons why he doesnt want to use the embryos. For my husband, he didnt want to go through any more losses and he didnt want me to go through any more egg retrievals but agreed we would transfer our last embryo and unfortunately we ended up having a chemical.

Thank you for taking the time to reply :) Yes I agree the feeling of wanting another baby is really strong and it's something that I am very set on. I do feel it's probably going to be a deciding factor in whether we stay together, that's where my head is at with everything.

I totally get if he has apprehensions over the IVF, however if he does he has never voiced them or gave me that impression, it has always just been financial reasonings. He knows he can always come to me if he has any worries or concerns but he never does. Just shuts me down when I bring it up or else it ends in an argument.

I'm sorry to hear about your chemical pregnancy that is so hard to go through when you've put so much into treatment. Big hugs. I would love to try and implant our remaining embryos (not all of them, one or two) and at least I could know that I had tried again for myself.

Perhaps I will take your approach and ask for an open discussion where I don't want any arguing I just want to know why he's so against it and I want him to hear me out and if we can't agree then discuss where we go from here I suppose.

Tbh, to me it sounds like he either doesn’t really want a 2nd child (hence the just trying naturally when it probably won’t work based on your past experience?) - or he found IVF too traumatic the first time and worries about feeling similar upset again, even though FET is usually less stressful, physically at least.

Although I suppose one other concern might be he could worry that you wouldn’t be able to draw a line if the FET(S) didn’t work and might then want to go through a full IVF cycle again with all the spiraling costs and stresses that could entail? So he is drawing the line now to try to preempt that.

It sounds to me like you need to sit down with him again and try getting him to have an honest discussion to find out which of these scenarios it is. Maybe lay out that you will not be happy until you have transferred your frozen embryos and know whether it was “meant to be” or not? (he might argue that trying naturally is “meant to be” but since IVF worked for you before and trying naturally didn’t…).

As you say, his financial argument doesn’t stack up because if you do have the savings there, £2000 for a FET is a drop in the ocean compared to the cost of raising a child or even the cost of a full IVF round/s. There must be a deeper reason for his reluctance and if you can find out what it is, you can then decide whether it’s something you can live with.

You need a really open honest discussion. Our first child was IVF and we both said we’d want a sibling. My wife wanted to try for a second earlier than I did, but understood it was important to wait until I was ready. We had 2 frozen embryos and when we started trying for a second I was clear that whilst I felt emotionally ready to do FETs I didn’t feel ready for any more egg collections. Luckily our first FET for a sibling worked!

We’ve had to be open about our remaining embryo - I said throughout my second pregnancy that I felt I couldn’t destroy that that embryo and wanted to transfer it. My wife felt like she was too old to have a third baby. Over time her feelings have shifted and she’s now on board with transferring our last embryo (though again, I’m not ready yet). I’m not sure what happens if that last embryo doesn’t stick - logically, financially we should stop, but there is a part of my heart that can’t come to terms with the idea that my second baby might be last to be honest. All you can do is try to navigate together. I’d also start discussing how you both feel about the remaining embryos and what you might want to do with them in the future

If affordability is the issue you need to sit down together once your son’s gone to bed and work out the costs. FETs are much cheaper and imo (a good bit) less stressful as it’s less intense and you know you have something to transfer.

However, I suspect that the cost might not be the issue in reality. Perhaps he’s found fatherhood more difficult than expected or feels fulfilled with one. Perhaps entering into the fertility/ ttc again has been triggering for him and he’d rather bury his head in the sand. You really need to talk.

You mention ‘by the way’ that it was mfi at the root of your fertility issues. This wasn’t really relevant to your original post and the fact you’ve mentioned it kind of suggests that you might blame him or feel resentful that this is ‘his fault’ you’re in this situation in the first place so he she just get on with it. Maybe this wasn’t your intention but that’s how it came across to me (and perhaps to him?) You’ve no idea how/if you would’ve conceived without your husband, fertility is complicated even if all your results were A+.

I do sympathise as I’d be gutted if my husband did not want to proceed with another round but I think there’s more to this than the money.

Hi Lucas thank you very much for your response, it is appreciated.
Perhaps he has found everything too traumatic and if this is the case if he would just talk to me about that then I would know. Do you have any suggestions as to how to maybe broach the conversation in a different way as each time I bring it up I get a bad attitude and it shut down immediately.

Yes as for egg retrieval I told him during our first round that I wouldn't be keen to ever do an egg retrieval again. I reacted a lot to the medications and ended up with Oversrimulated ovaries which caused a bit of an issue after the retrieval! So he knows that for me, unless he really wanted to another round I wouldn't be keen to go through the whole process again.

Hi 2 mum life thank you so much for your response. The IVF route is just a very emotionally and physically difficult process isn't it? I'm delighted your first FET worked for a sibling!!! Congratulations!!

Yes initially we both had said our ideal was 2/3 children so we were delighted with our outcome of 9 embryos.

From the get go he has known that I've always wanted to implant another 1 has I want my son to have a sibling and this little embryo was only .1 of a grading off my son's embryo grading so I've always wanted to try it. If it isn't meant to be it isn't meant to be and at least I would know I've tried it.

I had thought wanting to start the process again would be exciting for him as he has always said he wanted more kids but I'm just unsure how to get a proper conversation out of him to find out maybe what his reasonings are for being so against it. Its a very difficult one to gage and I do find ita driving a wedge between us as I am a very open person with my feelings where I feel he can be very closed off at times.

The funny thing is when we did discuss what we wanted to do with our remaining embryos he was the one who wasn't comfortable with the conversation as he wanted to keep them .. I am just very confused at his change of heart!

Hi strawberry Fields thank you very much for your response. No this was not my intention to make this come across as I resented him at all. I have never made him feel like he was the "problem" I have always said that even with optimum results fertility is a minefield and lots of people have unexplained infertility. I work on healthcare myself, I actually work in gynae so I would never place a blame on him and he knows that. I only mentioned it encase people asked what sort of procedure we had which was ICSI as that seemed very relevant when we were going through the treatment. It was certainly the most expensive but worth every penny at the time.

I agree I don't think affordability is the issue here and trying to get a conversation out of him is like drawing blood from a stone. Id love it if he came to me and just told me it was too much mentally for him to hear and then at least I could understand where he's coming from. For me I'm wondering why does he not want another child with me. Is it me specifically? Because at the time he was thrilled with our results and he's a great father to our son. He also comes from a family of 5 siblings and they're really close and he loves it.

Have you any advice on how to maybe start that conversation in a way that won't end in him shutting down and me getting frustrated? At the end of the day I do want more children and I feel like the older I get am I wasting my time in a relationship where number 1 we can't have an open and honest chat about serious things or 2 we don't want the same things. Thank you for your response.

You just need to ask him to speak openly. Hey DH, we need to talk, I want to hear you, I want to understand you. We’ve been through a lot together to create those embryos and I’m trying to understand your reasons for not wanting to do a FET now. Is it a not now or a not ever?

Could you arrange a session with a fertility counsellor (even on your own if it would help).

Hi @Dogmum15 I had a very similar experience to you in that first attempt worked and I have 8 embryos in the freezer. We're older than you and I ended up having a C-section so we'll be going for FET for a potential sibling once baby is around 1. Once we had the egg collection and got so many embryos we had a discussion about how many siblings we'd like to go for and the age gaps we'd prefer.

I think you need to sit down with him and figure out what it is he wants and what he objects to about FET. I found the FET process a walk in the park compared to egg collection, I had to have a freeze all due to overstimulation. Is he well informed about FET and what It entails? It sounds like money is just an excuse, does he not want another child?

Hi thank you for your response! It sounds like you and I had very similar experiences, congratulations on your embryos! The egg retrieval is hard work isn't it but very rewarding. I was the same as yourself I couldn't have a fresh transfer due to overstimulation but yes I agree that the next FET will be a walk in the park compared to what we went through before!

Yes I agree money can't be the issue and I'm starting to wonder perhaps yes he mightn't want another child. I wish he would just tell me that... As I do want more children and he has always known this about me. I love being a mum! Good luck with your other transfer when the time comes! X

Hi thanks for your response. A fertility counsellor is a great idea I had never thought of that actually. I will start researching that today as even chatting to one myself might hep my own mental health over all of this. Thank you!

Ok I’m glad you don’t feel that way. I’ve found it so important to try to be a team through all of this and he’s not being fair by shutting down. You’re talking about your future - what the rest of your life looks like - you’re a family and those decisions should be made together. Fertility counselling is a great idea, I’ve had a positive experience with it.

No idea where you’re based but my frozen cycles have been closer to 3/4k including meds so just a heads up with the costs (even though it seems that’s not the main issue). And I may be way off base here but is everything ok with his job? Is it definitely secure and is he happy there? Some men feel a pressure to be the breadwinner and he might be stressing out about 2 kids in that way if his job situation is tough. If you’ve indicated you’d like to take a step back in your career ideally too wonder if that plays any part of it?

Hi thank you for getting back in touch. Yes I am very interested in the fertility counselling suggestion I think this would be a great step, for me at least, to talk things through.

As for the costing my medications are actually a bit cheaper due to having a family member working in a local pharmacy who gets them for me and my clinic charges a rate of 1400 euro for transfer which includes beta and scan of successful. Now saying that if any extra medications were needed or any extra investigations then the cost would be higher but so far I have costed it probably in around 2,000 - 2,500. I have had all pre checks already carried out and paid for which was an extra 600 on top of that so I suppose if I was still requiring those the cost would be more around the 3000 bracket.

That's a good point about his job. As far as I'm aware yes he's happy but again he might not be telling me everything. He hasnt mentioned any issues though. Yes I have expressed wanting to cut down my hours in work as I want to be home more for my son but we are downsizing our house to account for this as I don't want the cut in my wages to fall on him for a mortgage when that time comes, as this probably would be something he would stress over!

I definitely think perhaps I will go down the counselling route as I feel he has always known that I want more kids and aa far as my understanding went so did he. So unless he can tell me his reasoning for his change of heart then I feel that I must just assume we are on different pages where our future is concerned.

@Dogmum15 how are you getting on?
if he’s saying it’s because of money, can you suggest you will cover it from your salary and not from joint savings? What would he answer to that?
But it doesn’t sound it’s a money issue, though.
I suspect a resentment towards him would come and you’ll naturally fall apart, if he doesn’t allow you to use your embryo(s).
I hope he explains his reasons properly.