3rd failed embryo transfer - help.

[Scotty500]

My husband and I are going through IVF, it is an absolutely tortuous process and it’s breaking my heart.

I am 32, husband is 30 and we have MFI. All other tests have been normal.

We used ICSI and managed to make 7 blastocysts.

Frozen Transfer 1: BFN
Frozen Transfer 2: BFP, chemical pregnancy at 5 weeks.
Frozen Transfer 3: BFN.

Is this normal for it not to have worked? Has anyone had success after so many failed transfers? I’ve lost all hope.

Hi @Scotty500 sorry to hear about your failed transfers. I had 4 failed FETs with PGT tested embryos before we got a positive (currently 9 weeks pregnant with our last embryo 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻). Things that we did differently that seemed to work were using embryo glue, aspirin and a low dose steroid on top of the usual oestrogen and progesterone. I had struggled with slightly
thin womb lining also so we did ERA testing
this time which acted as an endometrial scratch. My ERA said that we were implanting at the right time so we didn’t change my
progesterone regime. Just
wondering if your clinic have made any changes in the last 3 cycles? I would recommend asking for some testing at this stage before proceeding and we also did some free consults with clinics online to see if anyone else would use a different approach. I think monitoring progesterone levels just before and just after transfer is really important. Fingers crossed for your next transfer, it is so tough to keep going.

Thank you so much for your reply! And congratulations 🩷

I’m really concerned after reading your reply. Our clinic has been having us do completely natural cycles so I am on literally NO medications. I asked about aspirin and steroids and was told they aren’t needed. I literally just call when I get a positive ovulation test and then seven days later they transfer the embryos back.

We are using our NHS funding so can’t have any ‘add on’ like embryo glue. They haven’t ever tested my progesterone levels, at any point. And I was told the NHS won’t do PGT testing unless I have a known genetic condition.

I feel like this was destined to fail after hearing all the medications other people are given. Have I got any hope left?

@Hopefulsummer35 sorry forgot to tag you x

@Scotty500 sorry to hear that this has been your experience with your clinic. Do you have the option to consider moving remaining embryos to another clinic maybe? I tried one natural cycle but mine was a modified natural one so no oestrogen but I was on progesterone for that one and also had a trigger shot. That one didn’t work for me. For this one was on the medications I mentioned previously plus 8 oestrogen tablets per day, an oestrogen patch, a progesterone pessary and two progesterone injections per day. Now tbh that is a lot more medication than I was on for my previous 4 cycles but somewhere in the middle would be more normal e.g. one form of oestrogen and one form of progesterone. Does your clinic do a
debrief after failed cycles where you can chat to a doctor about making a new plan?

@Hopefulsummer35 Thanks for the info! If we moved clinic we would have to give up our NHS funding. Our plan had been to use the NHS funding and then move to a private clinic (possibly abroad) if needed. Desperately hoping that we will have our family before having to move clinic.

yes they do a debrief but we aren’t involved in it. We just get a letter saying what (if any changes) are to be made. I am going to send an email today asking about more testing/change of treatment plan but as I said it’s a five month wait for a response. It’s exhausting.

@Scotty500 Sorry to hear about your transfers.

How many more tries can you have with your NHS funding?

I had a failed transfer with a euploid embryo in January. I am currently 5 weeks pregnant from a second transfer. This time they gave me an extra day of progesterone, as a result of ERA results, and I’ve been on prednisolone and a higher dose of aspirin (150mg per day).

When you say no medications, is that literally no oestrogen or progesterone too?

@Scotty500 Try not to worry too much, you’ve had three transfers and one was a success, albeit sadly ending in early miscarriage (which is out of everyone’s control). That makes you bang on average - only 1/3 transfers are successful.

I’ve been through two rounds of ivf so appreciate it is trying and emotionally exhausting, and it can feel like there are endless tests and differnt protocols to try. By all means, write to your clinic and ask about the extra tests and medication and let them know you want to try everything possible to maximise your chances.

But if it’s any comfort, I know lots of people who’ve done IVF and it can just take a few transfers and rounds before you get lucky. I have a friend who had 6 failed transfers and then had 3 babies from transfers 7,8,and 9. I am currently pregnant from my second round and second transfer (only managed one embryo from each round). I took progesterone after transfer but otherwise didn’t take anything at all.

And if you know it’s male factor, there may be less need for all the add-ons as your body may be doing what it needs to do and you just need that one lucky embryo! And hopefully one of your 7 will be 🤞

Good luck with the journey, IVF is tough so well done for persisting!

@Always28 thanks for your reply and congratulations on your pregnancy! We have one more transfer with this round and then the consultant will decide if we are suitable for another cycle to create more embryos. I’ll be 33 by then so imagine quality will be very poor.

Yes, I’m on literally zero medications so no progesterone or oestrogen.

@AnnieStar12 thanks for your kind words, it made me feel a little better knowing that im ‘average’. Congratulations on your pregnancy! 🩷

I’ll try and stay positive and hope for a miracle.

our clinic have just phoned and said we will have to wait till February for another transfer and it’s broken my heart all over again. They just keep saying ‘long waiting lists’. I asked about making changes to our treatment plan and they said I can ask but it will delay the transfer even later than Feb and they don’t feel the need for any further testing.

Any tips on how to keep going? Today I wish I could close my eyes and never wake up again.

@Scotty500 oh I’m so sorry to hear, February is a long wait indeed! Is it an option at all for you to go private in the meantime? I know it’s really expensive, but at least you’d be able to have a collection and transfer within the next few months.

@AnnieStar12 I thought we couldn’t make more embryos until we had used the ones we have? Don’t HEFA say you can’t? I might have misunderstood something!

I have "normal" progesterone but still on lower side of normal, had icsi for male factor and also got 6 embryos from 7 eggs. All excellent quality, first didn't implant. I asked for lubion injections as I didn't feel I was absorbing the progesterone pessaries and also took high dose vit d. 2nd transfer (1st frozen one) implanted in 4 days, he was determined to exist! He's now nearly one and as determined as ever! I do think the progesterone helped me as I bled early on first transfer despite being on pessaries.

Really hope your clinic do something different for you next time, it's a heartbreaking process xx

Also I was 34 when having ivf so doesnt mean it can't work after 33 x

My son was the result of our 4th transfer (none were tested). Keep at it, miracles do happen x

Thank you both for your replies!
@Imisscoffee2021 i bled on day 9 and day 11 on our BFN cycles, could this be because of progesterone level? Should I have made it to test day without bleeding regardless of success or failure? It’s go nice to hear that your little boy was determined to exist!

@SH998 Thank you, it’s so hard to keep going after three failed transfers. And even harder now I have to wait seven months before we can try again. I’m glad it worked for you though 🩷

It may well be progesterone, are you taking any at all via pessaries or did I see you're completely ummedicated? I was on pessaries daily and it was still just 35 on transfer so I paid for (I went private as didn't want to wait) lubion injections on top tol 12 weeks when the placenta took over progesterone making.

Only way to know for sure if for your clinic to test, they do sound very pessimistic in their tone of saying g how much longer it will be to change things, despite having seven month run up to it. Not sure how you feel about it but if you can afford to go private, we had savings luckily though spending them has meant we've had to leave our high cost of living area and move away at least while he's small, but I had the initial consult in June, had the round in August and was pregnant at end of October. Not saying it'll happen for all but a different clinic might be more amenable to a tailored or medicated round. Sorry if I've missed it but are you NHS?

@Imisscoffee2021 yes we are completely unmedicated so no progesterone at all. And yes we are using our NHS funding now, although we did do our egg collection and first transfer privately because of waiting times (just coincidence that we then came
to the top of the NHS list).

I think we would consider private again but (and I might be totally wrong) I was under the impression that because we have frozen embryos we can’t make anymore until we have used these ones?

It seems very odd for the clinic to keep repeating the same protocol. Whoever is paying (your ICB) would surely expect value for the funding (or are they not prescribing anything because they are being total cheapskates).
I would at the very least insist upon progesterone. Organise your own private tests if they won’t do them. I had a very poor NHS IVF experience and am wondering if you are at the same clinic. Or if there are two so stubbornly resistant to being patient-centred?

Sorry for all you have been through so far.

No not at all! Many people choose to bank embryos from a few rounds before transferring, especially if they’re planning to have more than one child and/or if they get low numbers of embryos per round. That’s very common practice.

It is true that with NHS funding you can’t batch embryos from multiple rounds, so you would have to use them all up before they’d fund another round.

But that’s not the case if you’re self funded. If you go private you can get your embryos and transfer them when you’re ready.

I mean maybe there’s some rule about not being allowed having embryos at different clinics, but I’ve not heard of that before.

@Scotty500 i too requested Lubion injections as I felt my levels were low although these weren’t tested until I paid privately for this to be done on the 4th cycle.
I was bleeding before test day (within 7 days) on all BFN’s. It’s worth mentioning your concerns to them x

@AnnieStar12 thanks, that’s good to know! I’ve contacted a private clinic in Glasgow to ask for some more info. Our NHS clinic called again today to say it would actually be March and there is absolutely no wiggle room at all. 8 months to wait for a transfer that I feel is doomed to fail because they won’t make any changes to the treatment plan.

@SH998 thanks for the tip! I’ve emailed and asked for progesterone to be checked and if they refuse (they will) I’ll pay for it privately.

Im very aware how maudlin im being and that i sound very negative but literally every step of this process has been a fight. I am relying solely on google to help me ‘demand’ the correct test/meds/treatment and I feel like it I don’t I’m just left to fail.

@Scotty500 Hi, first of all I'm sorry you are going through this, it's such a hard and unfair journey to be on!
It took us 7 transfers to get pregnant without any complications. Currently 13w. I was losing all hope after 2nd failed cycle but somehow it did work eventually. We had 3 failed transfers, 2 chemical and one loss at 7w. For the first two cycles (4 transfers) we followed an artificial protocol and were advised to change to a modified one for our last cycle. Also NHS funded.

I'm so sorry you're having a terrible time, I know the despair you're feeling well and IVF ruined my mental health. I also had a horrendous NHS IVF experience, we weren't even NHS patients we paid privately at an NHS clinic and the treatment was awful, traumatic egg collections whilst awake with just gentle sedation that didn't touch the pain, constantly being dismissed when raising concerns, I also bled before every BFN but they never tested my progesterone levels. Every cycle they just did the same protocol insisting it was just a matter of perserverence and it would work at some point. After 3 cycles we went to institute marques in Barcelona, they did loads of extra testing and found problems the NHS clinic never even knew I had because they never bothered to look. The treatment was a positive experience with pain relief provided for everything, caring gentle doctors and a consultant who knew EXACTLY what she was doing. She put together a plan for us, that cycle also failed but she learned from what didn't work, changed it slightly to add a few more things and the next transfer worked. It was also cheaper than the treatment in the UK which was abysmal. If you can afford it I urge you to go abroad, look at institute marques they are incredible. In the end it took 5 transfers/3 years to have my little girl who is now 6 weeks old. I am convinced if we had stayed at the NHS clinic I would never have got pregnant. I've gone from being hopeless and depressed to the happiest I've ever been. I wish you all the luck in the world my heart breaks for you as I know your pain x

Hi @Scotty500 I'm just reading through threads due to my own implantation failures (5), but I didn't want to read and run - I have been with a private Glasgow clinic who haven't changed a thing for any of my cycles so I am now on the hunt for a clinic abroad. I felt the clinic just kept doing the same protocol each time despite me asking for change. I hope you get the answers you need, but just want you to be aware private clinics sometimes aren't much different in the UK.