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Infertility

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Advice on DNA Fragmentation

6 replies

Bubbles19818 · 11/05/2024 07:10

My husband (41) and I (36) are trying for our second child after the birth of our son 2yrs ago. We had a missed miscarriage back in feb at 8 weeks (stopped developing at 6) and have not been successful since then (appreciate early days, however we have always found it relatively easy to conceive)

Before we had our first we had a semen analysis due to age / my husband has been on long term SSRI and I had read this can impact semen. It all came back fine except from 1% morphology. Fast forward two years and post miscarriage we did another test + dna fragmentation and the results were not as great but all within WHO parameters, but morphology was bad again (2%). We had a SCSA test and that was DFI 20. This was after 6 months of vitamins (fertility for men, ashwaganda & vit d). I had read that was elevated, but I remained hopeful we could conceive naturally but with an increased risk of miscarriage.

We were referred to a urologist who is meant to be one of the best in London but hasn’t been particularly helpful in terms of what that score means or next steps. He put my husband on Impryl (he’s been on this since end of March) and he’s confirmed a grade 2 varicocele and then retested his dna frag last week as he said he only likes to look at the comet test. I’ve had my husband ejaculate every 2-3 days (urologist said he didn’t think this would help) since and the test was on a 60hr hold and came back at ACS 35%. I am absolutely devastated by this but my husband is not concerned as the urologist said the results had not worsened and the two test results are not comparable and the score is just slightly elevated. He said we could try ivf with ICSI if we wanted or we could have his varicocele repaired or we could just keep trying but he wasn’t concerned or pushing either options as best thing to do. He didn’t give us any odds for natural conception or how it might impact miscarriage rates.

I have no idea what our next steps should be. I’m 36.5 and age is not on our side. Should we be exploring IVF or should we try repairing variocele first. We are in the U.K. so IVF will be all self funded.

The fact we have a previous child has always assured me but I found a study last night which was interesting suggesting links between vitality and dna fragmentation (https://rbej.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12958-015-0035-y). https://rbej.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12958-015-0035-y). Interestingly his sperm vitality was 74% when we conceived gin Jan 2022. In his last test it was 54% (cusp of WHO parameters so not flagged as issue) which is a big decline and if this study is anything to go by might suggest that dna fragmentation was not an issue for us back in 2022 hence why it was so easy to conceive and carry our child to full term.

any advice would be much appreciated as this is such a low researched topic and feel very in the dark. If we we were early 30s I would be wait it out and see but age is def putting pressure on this situation.

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Ladyinpink1 · 15/09/2024 22:05

I was searching for info on ashgawanda and your post came up. I had a read of it and I'm really sorry for the journey you have had. I'm not familiar with the issues with sperm but have experienced some of the same issues (still ttc now a year after our mmc) Can I ask how things have turned out for you? x

Bubbles19818 · 18/09/2024 08:53

Hi @Ladyinpink1 I’m sorry you’re on this journey, miscarriage and infertility are very difficult things to go through.

I always feel a bit nervous sharing this as I feel like I’m jinxing it but, I am currently 17 weeks pregnant (conceived shortly after this post actually). I have really struggled with anxiety in this pregnancy due to my husbands results and our previous miscarriage and I know we are still not out of the woods by any means, but trying to take it day by day.

I am not sure if it’s luck that we conceived, but after my husbands results we really focussed on egg and sperm health. My husband was on impryl for his dna frag and to support general sperm health (men can take too many vitamins which can put oxidative stress on sperm health) and we implemented a strict Mediterranean diet and I had my husband eating lots of nuts (walnuts, hazelnuts and almonds) and watercress everyday as well as a teaspoon of tomato purée - it was not the most fun diet but it was totally manageable. We were only on the diet 6 weeks before we conceived so god knows if it made a difference, but I felt better knowing we were both actively doing something. We continued on the diet until I was 8 weeks, but only follow it loosely now.

I am not sure if the above is any help as you haven’t given too much history. I just want to add how sorry I am and I wish you all the luck in the future 🍀

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Ladyinpink1 · 20/09/2024 19:14

@Bubbles19818 I am so pleased to read your reply! Congratulations, that is so lovely, how have you been feeling this pregnancy?

Thank you very much for taking the time to type that reply, that was very good of you and I did not know that about too many vitamins... and in fact, since my last miscarriage, we have went a bit crazy on the vitamins and been taking a huge amount of vitamins to try to prevent any further losses but we haven't concieved either... all of my tests are good so it is unexplained and never been an issue before, now I'm wondering is this why!

If you dont mind, could you suggest the main important ones we both should take? At the minute we are taking between us a mixture of unbiquinol, f.acid, vit e, vit c, kelp, vitex, magnesium, calcium, vit d, b12, omega, ashgawanda, zinc, b6, b complex, nac. I am going to Google all of this about too many vitamins and try to figure out some changes x

Bubbles19818 · 08/10/2024 08:58

Hey @Ladyinpink1 im so sorry I haven’t replied sooner.

Before I share what we did I just want to caveat by saying I am not a fertility nutritionist or a dr so I would advise you speak to a professional who can advise you on your own individual circumstances or do some research yourself.

For myself, I relied on personal research and the advice of my fertility acupuncturist who I was seeing 2-3 times per month. I was taking a really good prenatal (wild nutrition fertility support), omega 3, vitamin d, optibac women’s probiotic and then pharma nord cq10 which has some really good research around its impact on egg quality. I then made sure to stay hydrated, exercise regularly and we really committed to a Mediterranean diet cutting out processed food.

My husband was seeing a fertility urologist for his high dna fragmentation. He was advised that for men too many vitamins and in high doses can actually stress the body creating oxidative stress which damages the sperm. He ended up just taking impryl as his supplement, but proxeed is also meant to be good. The urologist said one good quality supplement and then focusing on the diet is all you need and most nutrients should come from your diet. For my husband I ensured we had lots of watercress in our diet almost daily, lots of colourful fresh veg and nuts like walnuts and hazelnuts. Apparently a teaspoon of tomato purée everyday for men is good too.

I hope that helps. But as I said, I would do my own research or reach out to a fertility nutritionist who can advise you based on your own situation xx

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Ladyinpink1 · 08/10/2024 09:23

@Bubbles19818 thank you for replying, and typing out the info, I read your disclaimer 🙂 completely understand.

I have researched non stop on supplements, diet etc and have found so much contradicting evidence, it's frustrating but as a result we have spend a fortune on alot of supplements, all supposed to do help but with no idea there is a possibility it could be detrimental.

After payday I will get impryl as well, it is expensive but still less than all of the undividual supplements.
Since your last message I have cut down both dh and I's supplements to the ones that I think are necessary. We have also starting healthier eating and I will be sure to incorporate nuts and water cress into the diet too.
Really wish you all the best in your pregnancy and I really hope to be able to come back here soon and update you with good news! xx

Bubbles19818 · 08/10/2024 21:39

@Ladyinpink1 - you are welcome! And best of luck, I’m keeping everything crossed that you have good news to share very soon ❤️🍀

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