Where now from multiples failures?

[eva178]

I'm 41 with endometriosis and am not sure what to do now. I got pregnant naturally two years ago but had a MMC at 7 weeks. Sperm fine. Since then have had seven rounds of IVF with two clinics resulting in

• Three eggs, two blastocysts, failed double transfer
• Natural cycle - only one egg, didn't fertilise
• Three eggs, one embryo, PGTA tested abnormal
• Cancelled cycle, too few follicles
• Two eggs, one fertilised, died in the PGTA process
• Cancelled cycle
• Three eggs, all fertilised, double transfer of the two good ones, a slow growing one in the freezer (PGTA came back "no result").

The most recent double transfer resulted in a single pregnancy but TFMR at 15 weeks due to Trisomy 21.

I don't know what to do now. We aren't quite out of money but it's getting increasingly difficult with work and I just don't really feel I can do more IVF and keep my job for much longer which I would need to to pay for it.

I also feel that my issue is clearly not implantation and I can stay pregnant. I assume the first pregnancy ended due to egg abnormality as well, so it's probably just age? Given my low numbers of eggs being collected each time and the failure of PGTA, I feel that we might have just as much chance with having lots of sex and hoping for the best.

Is this stupid? Should I accept it's IVF or nothing? Or is donor eggs really my only option? I do understand that the most likely outcome of every choice is nothing and that's OK - I just feel stuck on what to do next. Is it possible to get some of the egg boosting drugs like growth hormone without actually having IVF?

Hey - so sorry to hear this. I am in a similar place, done IVF six times and never been pregnant. Trying to work out whether we keep going or go for donor eggs. I think I still want to try a couple more times - seeing turning 42 as perhaps the cutoff point…
Which clinics have you been to? I presume you are doing all the supplements, accupuncture, healthy living etc?
My view is if you have enough money to go another time and you have the mental strength to do it - then go for it. You could end up being one of the lucky ones.

Robert Winston would absolutely echo your thoughts that you are probably as likely to conceive naturally. Whether that would result in a viable pregnancy is obviously uncertain though, but so is conceiving via IVF at your age, even with PGTA. I'm so sorry for all you've been through. I think donor eggs would be the next sensible step if you pursue further fertility treatment. I personally can't really see the sense in continuing what you're doing. 7 rounds is an awful lot and it obviously isn't working for you.

In answer to your question, no there is no good quality evidence that anything can improve egg quality or number, and there are no drugs that can do that. Acupuncture and all the holistic type treatments have also been shown to be of no benefit.

Robert Winston's website (the genesis research trust) may well be worth looking at for further info. Wishing you well with however you go forwards.

I am sorry to read your story. I am almost in the same boat. 3 rounds, 4 transfers 2 CP and 2 negatives in 5 years. . I will be 41 in march and we have 1 more embryo left. If it doesn't stick, I don't know which way to go.
Even though we are unexplained, I haven't managed to fall pregnant naturally. I have suspected adenomyosis and issues with a thin lining so I require additional treatment.

We have done almost every test available in our country, except for ERA and endometrio which my consultant consider to be useless. Also, we haven't done PGT for various reasons one being that we don't get many embryos anyway. The protocols were always adjusted: we tried medicated, natural, medicated + immunes: prednisone, clexane, aspirin, intralipids. I had 3 hysteroscopies including 1 to correct the T-shaped uterus.

My consultant has noted that HGH during stimulation hasn't improved the rate of success. Some patients got more eggs retrieved but the no. of embryos/confirmed pregnancies was still low.

Have you tried the lupron/medically induced menopause protocol for endometriosis/adenomyosis? I have done this protocol for my last transfer and even though it ended in a CP, the uterus was clear of inflamation which is a big step for me.

Supplements haven't helped me at all, my outcome was the same with or without them and I must admit I am not a big fan just because there are so many women who fall pregnant without them and without any issues, but that's just my opinion. I do however try and live healthily, I watch my diet, I stopped drinking alcohol a year ago etc.

It sucks. It's depressing and frustrating.
I wish you strength!

@eva178 hi, really sorry for the struggles and pain you are going through ❤️

I fully understand what you are going through, though it is secondary infertility due to age. I have 2 kids naturally in my 20s and 30s. (DS with my current DH), but we wanted 3 and planned for 3 but delayed.. I will be 42 in 2 months, for 2 years we had 4 chemical pregnancies, 2 egg collection cycles. We are doing ivf for PGTA testing, as I want to minimise the number of miscarriages (I know impossible to prevent fully). First round we got 4 embryos- abnormal; second round - 2, also abnormal. If I didn't do genetic testing, I would be false positive that I have 6 embryos in a freezer and can slowly go through transfers.. All embryos gave different pathology, full mix.
As I had suspecred PCOS, my quantity very good for age, 17 collected, but 2 till day 5 only, so quality is very bad.

If I didnt have high AMH, some clinucs do duo-stimulation - 2 egg collection in 1 cycle to bank embryos, then to test them. For that clinics abroad cheaper and have good success rates. So if finance side and mental side (which is very important) allow you, maybe get a few consultations abroad, they do online, even for second oppinions.

we had with dr in Spaim, Czech Republic..all said the same as my dr, so I have more confidence now. Conclusion - do another stimulation, test all and I'mf none viable - stop. Next step will be donor egg route. Or if mentally ready for miscarrigies to try naturally, as with donor route less pressure of time.

we are lookingvand discussing all options, this month I will do the last EC cycle.

Wishing you strength for whatever decision you take. PM me if you want more details on my experience or details what I learned, or just support xx

Thank you so much for all the replies, it's so helpful (and heartening) to hear other people's experiences and I'm so sorry everyone is going through this too. It seems so hard and such a rarely talked about thing.

To answer a few questions, I was with ARGC and moved to The Evewell when the bootcamp approach just didn't work with work any more but medically they have been similar. I think I am on all the right supplements (all the ones the clinics have either recommended or not said are worthless!). I am a normal weight, try to eat healthily and don't drink or smoke.

Thank you also for recommending Robert Winston - it was actually reading his website that made me first doubt IVF as the only route so I'm glad to hear someone else recommend that as a legitimate source!

Also reassuring to hear the lack of evidence for HGH as that is the main one my clinic had me on (with as far as I can tell, no success).

Wishing everyone the very best of luck 🤞🤞🤞

I’m sorry to hear everything you’ve been through.
I went through a similar process.
Initially my thoughts to donor eggs were not really optimistic but when I started looking I came across a donor in US through BHED who looked very similar to my younger self but was more attractive, I watched her profile video and liked her mannerisms and voice and suddenly, when I found this person so adorable I completely came around to the idea. I went to Spring Fertility in NY and her cycle achieved 30 mature eggs, 25 fertilised, 17 blasts, 12 PGTA normal healthy. I had my embryo transfer yesterday. Everything crossed. I’m now 47. After lots of failed IVF it can be very upsetting. It’s taken two trips to NY. One to provide the sperm with hubby and blood tests, one for the transfer.
Although I’m very hopeful we still have lots of chances in the freezer left.
Maybe have a look at BHED website and drop Robyn an email or look at Spring fertility, I was under Dr.Catha Fischer who was amazing

Oh, wow, Sarah, that's exciting - hope the embryo transfer went well and fingers crossed for sticky ones! Fantastic for you to get so many embryos as well - thank you so much for sharing, donor eggs seems to be such a hidden sort of topic that I don't know much about it but I'm not fundamentally opposed (I think I'd be fine with it but DH is much less keen for no reason he can explain). I will definitely look into BHED - thanks.

Hi there, just want to say I’m in a similar position. 42 later this year, done 6 cycles (last 2 was a duo stim abroad, still waiting to hear re. Day 5 blasts on the second cycle). If you haven’t done it abroad yet, I recommend you try that. It is a much better experience at a lower cost. I have 4 blasts in total currently (2 in uk from a previous cycle). We’ve decided not to test them, and take our chances with the transfers. In a way, I feel I would rather give it a chance in its natural environment than test and throw them away - which may not be 100% accurate.

Im preparing myself that if they are all unsuccessful it’s not meant to be. I wish you the best and hope you feel better soon.

Good luck to everyone, I’m now day 3 post transfer.
we got 11 normal Pgta blasts in the final outcome of the cycle. I’m the absolute worst at waiting!
everything crossed 🤞

I wasn't in that position but I suffered from secondary infertility, 3 MCs and 2 failed transfers. I took supplements from the book 'it starts with the egg' and did fertility accupuncture. I also changed my drugs on second round. I do feel
The COQ10 and other supplements helped me. I went from 3 eggs one round to 10 the next which I think was a combination of doing the advanced plan from the book, accupuncture and changing my protocol (change of drug to menopur and upped dose of drugs). A family member was also told she would likely need donor eggs and it worked for her, is why I ended up following her and doing the above. Wishing you lots of luck x

Meant to add I'm just 41 and 33 weeks pregnant x

Brief update on this thread!
I got three positive tests yesterday 9 days post transfer!
Hope that fills others with hope xxx

@SarahJTin warmest congratulations!! ❤️ wishing stress-free (as much as possible) filled with joy next 9 months!

That's fantastic, @SarahJTin, congratulations! Also congratulations to @LittleDoveLove, 33 weeks, not long to wait now!

hi @eva178 I’m choosing DE route, but I didn’t have my own eggs IVF. Trying to get pregnant the last few years with no luck, I just see no point doing that. I’m at the end of 43. I have one 4 year old daughter naturally conceived.
Whatever you decide, you need to be comfortable with your decision.
my partner is okay with DE. It’s not like he’s going into this with open arms, but no objection either. In the end, who wants to do DE? It’s no one’s preferable option and couple years ago it even didn’t cross my mind as an option for me 🤷‍♀️it needs time to sink in your head.

Hi Sarah, did you finally get your baby with Spring fertility in New York? I'm thinking about it as well and was wondering if I should choose them rather than a private clinic in London.

Hi, yes
Our beautiful baby arrived on October. She was absolutely perfect. Born after induction at 39.2 weeks gestation.
Normal vaginal delivery without complications and she was perfect 9lb 7 baby.
Everyone says how similar she is to her Dad but I can undoubtedly see her mothers model eyes and lips which are identical and completely heart melting.
I know some people are sceptical about donor eggs but I look at her and everything other than a tiny grain of sand has been made in me and all her growth to date on my milk and I don’t have even the tiniest of regret, I absolutely adore her. I would completely recommend and when Dr.Fischer put in the embryo into my uterus she shows you on a screen where she is placing it which is rather incredible. She was full of confidence it would succeed when I was not and she was right.
good luck

Hi, yes
Our beautiful baby arrived on October. She was absolutely perfect. Born after induction at 39.2 weeks gestation.
Normal vaginal delivery without complications and she was perfect 9lb 7 baby.
Everyone says how similar she is to her Dad but I can undoubtedly see her mothers model eyes and lips which are identical and completely heart melting.
I know some people are sceptical about donor eggs but I look at her and everything other than a tiny grain of sand has been made in me and all her growth to date on my milk and I don’t have even the tiniest of regret, I absolutely adore her. I would completely recommend and when Dr.Fischer put in the embryo into my uterus she shows you on a screen where she is placing it which is rather incredible. She was full of confidence it would succeed when I was not and she was right.
good luck

Hi, I’m really sorry to hear you’re going through this. Unfortunately, failures can happen, and I know women who have succeeded on their 7th or even 8th IVF protocols. If you trust your fertility expert and believe they’re doing their best to identify the causes of the failures and offer solutions, it might be worth staying with the clinic. Even the best IVF clinics can encounter challenges. If I’m not mistaken, the team at eggdonationfriends has launched (or is planning to launch) a free service for patients facing multiple failures. Additionally, you might get some recommendations from the team of experts of IVF Abroad Facebook group. Both services are free, and it’s always helpful to get multiple opinions. You can discuss recommendations you receive with your fertility specialist to decide on the best path forward. All the best on your journey

@SarahJTin if you don't mind me asking, was the process in the US crazy expensive? I'm looking into DE after 2 failed FET, 1 CP from IVF and 8 natural losses (I also have a miracle 9 year old daughter) and would really like to find someone who resembles me (I have Nordic ancestry) but my clinic in Greece (Serum) only has access to people who look so very different that my husband and I. I wouldn't mind, but what I don't want is for our second miracle baby to feel totally different to her old sister and "other" somehow... I wish that we could just have a bonk on a Friday night and get pregnant like everyone around us 😢

It was quite expensive but the main cost was the donor we chose. Spring in NY will give you all the cost breakdown.
Thats exactly why we went to NY we wanted our baby to look like our family.
Donor concierge US found our donor and then we went to spring for the process. Our donor lived in NY which was helpful. I would never look back. If we could have seen our gorgeous beautiful baby when we were thinking about it we would never have hesitated. She is a complete mix of our model donor and my other half. She has her model eyes and expressions which are so beautiful. She’s so scrumptious and adorable. Initially I remember completely ruling out a donor when we first entered IVF. Now I’m pleased it didn’t happen with my eggs, because she’s so healthy I realise now how valuable a young egg is and I’m living proof that you couldn’t love them anymore xxx

Hi everyone, reading this thread has helped me so much with managing my emotions today and making me feel a little more positive that it hopefully still will happen for us someday. Although I am much earlier in our journey than a lot of people on this thread it is still extremely hard.

has anyone had success after multiple failed transfers from the same collection or is it generally if you have a few failed from one batch the whole batch won’t take and another collection is needed? We have transferred 4 embryos from the same collection now and had negative tests from them all. We have two embryos left and will hopefully be doing a double transfer of them soon but I feel like anyone I read with success after multiple failures it’s always after another collection so don’t have much faith in this next transfer