2 failed FETs - how to cope going forward

[CoCoaButter85]

My second FET failed just before Christmas. Tested positive 6dpt and then the line was getting fainter and confirmed by blood tests it is not viable. I think I was OK so far. Had consultation with doctor. His advise was to do anther collection and get embryos tested. but because I'm on access package decided to go ahead with 3rd transfer (last one of the 1st batch), do natural FET and also get blood tests for immune cells done. Overall I think I'm happy with the treatment plan. I'm fearful that there's something wrong with my eggs and only have 2 collection package (1 more collection to go) and stopping after that. But overall there is a plan so its not all looking bad only.

I was holding myself together all this time and during Christmas as well but today it just hit me. It didn't help I went to give a present to my friend (she had big birthday but was on hol on her actual birthday) who has twins and she opened the door all happy with her baby boy in hands. All smiley and ready for NY celebrations. I know its not her fault that things are not working out for me but it does really hurt. All this is so unfair. I just want to give it all in 2024 and just stop it afterwards. They invited their friends who have kids over for NY (obviously we were not invited as we have none and I'm bit weird with babies due to IVF in general). She invited us to come over after I gave the present but seriously? no thank you. I need to see her so much to get some support but it's just not seem to be possible from her end.

I'm thinking to get therapist through work insurance but it's difficult to find someone who deals with infertility. I used just a general therapist before and it wasn't bad but didn't feel she was equipped to support someone struggling with fertility.

I just feel lonely, completely battered and really wish 2024 will give me some closure regardless what happens. Sorry for long post but I really need someone to talk to and have some kind words and advise how to cope with all this.

@CoCoaButter85 really sorry to hear you're feeling that way, IVF is such an emotional rollercoaster. I too have sought counselling as it has raised my anxiety levels (not had that before) and it does help, albeit it's still hard.

If you don't mind me asking what other tests have you had done? Have you considered doing the miscarriage tests? If you've not already done so, that is. I had an early miscarriage/chemical (natural, between IVF cycles) and insisted on having miscarriage tests (usually advised after 2 or 3 miscarriages but I only had 1) and found out I had thyroid antibodies so will need steroids for any transfers I have. Could be worth doing some extra tests, if anything to rule things out before transferring.

@Sunflower360 thanks for getting back. I really appreciate your answer. It's difficult to find someone to talk to in real life about this. My husband is there for me but he will never be able to fully understand how I feel.

We haven't done anything apart from hysteroscopy and d&c. Consultant's initial suggestion was to try harvesting more embryos and testing them. But I need to use up all frozen ones before another egg collection. So now we agreed to do immune blood tests and switch to natural FET

I almost hope that the tests will show that there's something wrong. At least there will be plan of action. And hopefully not down to the fact that we cannot produce viable embryos

@CoCoaButter85 completely understand, it is hard when its just 'unexplained'. What were the grade of your transferred embryos? Appreciate it is hard to know which is euploid, but I'm a bit on the shelf with testing to be honest, will see how our transfers go but at the moment my thoughts are to give them a go by putting them in and see what happens

@Sunflower360 the embryos were graded pretty well. I think 5bb, 3bb and the last guy in the freezer is 2-3bb so not the best quality but certainly not the worst either. Why are you slightly skeptical to testing? I haven't researched it enough. But the idea that there will be nothing to transfer after testing is slightly terrifying. Have you had any transfers done yet? I naively went into this expecting this will work. At least I know it's not necessarily the case.

I'm certainly optimistic about having immune blood tests. As I had natural pregnancy a few years back now which ended in miscarriage so it would be interesting to see what the results are.

@CoCoaButter85 that is good and hopefully having more tests done can help guide the next transfer.

I'm just a bit wary with testing, probably because I have had no transfers as yet and am hoping for the best at the moment! But I have read of tests being inconclusive and that its still a growing area of research, and on that basis I'm cautious as I wouldn't want possibly ok embryos disposed, plus a euploid does not always means it works in which case I'm kind of thinking what's the point? But perhaps I'm oversimplifying it.

I found this article quite useful:

www.remembryo.com/pgs-testing/?utm_source=Remembryo&utm_campaign=474fd5b7fd-AUTOMATION__1&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d12bc80211-474fd5b7fd-483133021&mc_cid=474fd5b7fd&mc_eid=f54d870965#Conclusions

Hi @CoCoaButter85 sorry to hear that you are feeling down, but you are definitely not alone! I have also had two failed transfers. We are doing IVF due to MFI so I had naively assumed that it would have worked by now. The second failure was a real kick in the guts. I totally understand how the situation is impacting your friendship; I’ve stepped back from a lot of friends who are now onto their second kids as it hurts too much to be around them. Could you maybe take a step back from your friendship for a little while or explain that you would like to catch up with her without her baby?

If you don’t mind me asking, what’s your age? I’m 37 and our consultant didn’t seem too concerned with the failed transfers or with genetic testing. He seems to think it’s just a numbers game at this point. Wishing you a lot of success in 2024.

@Sunflower360 hope 2024 is the year for you as well

Sorry to hear you've had a tough journey. After unsuccessful transfers we went down the genetic testing route. We sent seven blasts for tasting and three came back normal. For me it was a no brainer to do the testing. It saved me money, time, saved my mental health as well as my husbands.

I also had my drugs changed and did some endemetrio testing as instructed to get my lining thick enough. On my successful transfer I also had a progesterone blood test done and discovered I needed daily injections to get me to whereI need to be. Xx

@Sunflower360 - I think you just need to give it a go first. We were advised by our consultant that there's no point in testing in the beginning (apart from the more routine/regular ones). But it's right thing to do to do bit more research and prepare yourself for all possible eventualities. And you never know - you might be lucky at your first attempt!

@Runner77 - I turned 37 early December (the last frostie is from when I was 36). Interesting your consultant not too bothered about testing. I think there's no right answer. But I'm glad I'm giving a go for my last frostie before doing genetic testing. Would you mind me asking what we're your protocols so far and if you are doing anything different going forward? How many embryos have you got from egg collection?

I think it's not a bad idea to stay back from friends for a bit. They would understand that. But the problem is I did it for a while when had my miscarriage a couple of years back. And now doing it again. I feel I should be able to cope with this by now. I feel I'm the weirdo for over 3 years now :(

@CR7 thanks for sharing your experience. After how many unsuccessful transfers did you go with genetic testing? And did you do immune testing as well?

I'm glad it worked for you at the end. It gives hope that it is possible.

Third transfer was successful. I was given steroids on that round as well as blood thinners and the progesterone test. Also the results from my endomeTRIO test played a part in the timing of the transfer x

I did duo stim (double collection after a free nhs round) and tested the day fives.

Also did a whole mock cycle as well for the endemetrio test and Hysteroscopy ( which revealed nothing)

@CR7 I think my next step after this would be endometrial testing (with full mock cycle) as well. How long was the turnaround for this? (Appreciate mock cycle is required)

What do you think played the biggest difference to make it work for you?

I hope you are doing well with your pregnancy and are able to relax and enjoy it x

Hi @CoCoaButter85 I'm really sorry to hear about what's been happening :( I had a chemical last Christmas and it was such a horrible time of year to have it. I was also on the access package, it took me 6 transfers (I'm currently pregnancy and close to being at term), it was the transfer after the chemical that worked for me. I also did a lot of tests along the way. I'm not a fan of the ERA, but we do have a ERA EMMA ALICE thread on here which you may want to post in, over time it has become a place to discuss tests and treatments in complicated situations. The EMMA ALICE looks at the microbiome as people with lactobacillus dominance have the best outcomes, there are other ways to test it though such as a menstrual fluid test. It sounds like you have a proactive specialist who is looking into different tests for you.

I'm not surprised it's difficult being around babies etc, I found this so triggering and my only coping mechanism was to completely cut myself off from people with children. As my journey got longer the supportive friends who were nowhere near having children then moved into wanting children though which was tough. I found a psychologist who has had IVF and they have supported me for a few years now (it's been a long journey) and I'd highly recommend you go through your insurance and find a psychologist with an interest in the trauma of infertility.

Because I wanted the Hysteroscopy and Endometrial testing done together in the same day I was down regulated first so that the consultant could time everything perfectly

@Gardenlady543 My ERA was very informative. I had a displaced implantation window and my microbiome was slightly off. Luckily I had taken caneston vaginal probiotics after the investigations which had then balanced everything out. A very quick fix.

The consultants then used the info for the correct window for me and my following transfer was successful. I'm due this week in fact.

So for me, the ERA made all the difference. I also had my drugs changed but without the ERA testing I don't believe the outcome would have been as positive though I appreciate you say you are not a fan of the procedure.

@CR7 the idea of it is very interesting and it would be great if their formula was backed up by evidence, but there's quite a lot of evidence coming out that shows the ERA makes no difference. I had a bad experience, I was found to be pre receptive and told to add an extra 24 hours of progesterone, with no need to repeat, I repeated anyway and it said I still was only early receptive and to add another 12 hours. So that's 1.5 extra days of progesterone and I wasted euploid embryos on this timing. I ignored the timing in a natural modified FET and did the transfer at the standard timing and that worked. There's a few people I've spoken to who had the same thing happen.

Re evidence, there is a study, only the abstract published
[[https://www.fertstert.org/action/showPdf?pii=S0015-0282%2821%2900882-7
www.fertstert.org/action/showPdf?pii=S0015-0282%2821%2900882-7]]

Both the study group and the control group had an ERA, the study group followed the ERA advice, the control group ignored the ERA and did the transfer at 123 hours +/-3 hours. Recurrent implantation failure and recurrent miscarriages were excluded, but it’s interesting to see what happens when the ERA result is ignored:

Limiting the analysis to those for whom ERA recommended a change in transfer timing of at least 12 hours (only Pre- and Post-receptive results, excluding Early and Late receptive; N=243), 63.3% of Control and 54.5% of Study subjects had an ongoing pregnancy (RR 0.86; CI 0.62-1.19; p=0.20).

So there was no difference between the group that had a receptive window and those who didn’t (but the result was ignored and the transfer was at the normal timing).

I can only go off my own personal experience though recognise that the studies you have cited showed poor results. My second transfer was with a genetically tested embryo which didnt work and my third after the era did so I'm bound to feel positive about the experience.

Every journey is different c

@CR7 for me it was a long and difficult journey which started back in 2019, if the ERA had been the thing that worked for me I would have been pregnant several years ago. I'm also due this week and for me and quite a few others that I speak to in an implantation failure group (4-5 unsuccessful transfers of high quality embryos) the ERA was a wild goose chase. Some clinics don't do it because of the lack of evidence. I'm a big fan of the microbiome testing though which can be done with the EMMA ALICE, I wrote a post on that here: www.reddit.com/r/infertility/s/0KfCYq4yPs

@Gardenlady543 we also started the journey in 2019. Delighted for us both that we are finally almost there! It's been an absolute rollercoaster but has definitely made me stronger.

Wishing you all the congratulations for your new baby

I have a great therapist who specialises in infertility. She is honestly amazing and covered by BUPA. Message me if you would like the details. Sending love and I know how you feel x

@KSW87 thank you 💐

Will send you a message now xx

Hi @CoCoaButter85 I know this is an old post but just seeing how you have got on this year? x