No embryos survived past day 3

[esined87]

Hello all, first time poster here :) We recently underwent ICSI for the first time, with our transfer day scheduled for last Monday. Unfortunately we learnt on Monday morning that none of our embryos survived past day 3 (the last update we received was on day 2, when 2 embryos remained - one to be transferred and the other to potentially be frozen).

I feel like I had prepared myself for a lot of outcomes - but this was not one of them. I was aware that implantation might fail after transfer, but I really wasn't expecting to be left with no embryos and have to start again from scratch. We were doing ICSI because my husband has low sperm quality - but the quality of my eggs was never in question before. The only thing working against me could be my age (I'm 36).

Has anyone experienced the same? And does anyone have any advice on how we can improve this for next time? We are keen to try again, but I desperately want to avoid the same outcome...

Hi @esined87 ,

I'm sorry to hear none of your embryo's survived :( How many fertilised eggs did you have?

Please don't give up hope- the numbers game can be cruel and make zero sense sometimes. I'm no expert at all- have you been on any vitamins, coq10 beforehand? xx

@esined87 Try not to worry, although easier said than done I know. In my first cycle with the NHS earlier this year I was on max stims and ended up with 2 mature eggs of which neither fertilised properly, so nothing to transfer.

Fast forward 8 months and I've had 3 more egg collections (I have low AMH), had 14 eggs collected overall and out of those 8 are frozen embryos (1 x day 3, 6 x day 5, 1 x day 6). Don't know if any are euploid as we haven't tested or transferred yet, so not sure if any will turn into a live birth as yet but it's more than I could have hoped for at this stage of the process following my first cycle.

I'm 38, AMH is 4.3 and have made diet changes (Mediterranean diet predominantly) and added supplements (CoQ10 being a high dose and vitamin D) in advance of the last 3 cycles

Hope that helps

Hi @esined87 IVF is a blindfolded rollercoaster ride, I'm sorry about your outcome.

My first cycle retrieved 16 eggs and only 2 were of quality good enough to either transfer or freeze. My emotions were all over the place, being super happy on egg collection day, to disappointment to hopefulness to facing the reality.. it was a failed transfer, and the other frozen one turned out abnormal.

The next 3 I was on a lower dose of stim so produced lesser eggs/embryos. My last round was the "best" round - I meticulously watched what I ate during stimulation, took all my vitamins + traditional chinese meds. My husband was only allowed to eat what I ate..

That said, I have had 3 transfers and none of them was successful so I am now preparing for my fifth round in Jan, which will be done abroad. I had a consultation with a UK doctor who had gone through IVF 5 years ago, her advice is to go abroad as the success rate will be higher; I wish I met her sooner.

If this is your first round, take it as a lesson learned. I've also read that the success rate improves with each cycle. Good luck!

Hi @FernaFrey @Sunflower360 and @4thcyclelucky, thank you so much for your kind words. I should have mentioned - 11 eggs were collected and 7 fertilised.

I experienced exactly the same with being so happy on collection day to everything coming crashing down just a few days later.

I've been on supplements for over a year now while trying to conceive - I started a high dose of CoQ10 but potentially too late, only a few weeks before egg collection. I am hopeful this might have a positive affect on future cycles. I'll look into vitamin D too - I'm vegan so can't change my diet too much, but I do believe I'm fit and healthy.

I'm actually already abroad, I live in Germany (I was just desperate to talk to people in my own language, so ended up here!) and my clinic does have significantly higher success rates in the second cycle... fingers crossed.

Exactly the same thing happened to us during our first cycle.

Had 13 eggs (my god, I was so excited when I got this number of eggs), 9 fertilised (again-amazing!), had 7 by day 3, and only one very early blast was left by day 5 (surprise--it was a failure). It was such a shock to our system. Like you said, not the outcome we prepared for.....

Next cycle, we did improve our diet/alcohol intake and the only thing that the doctors did differently was add ICSI and reduce the trigger dosage (i never asked why they did it actually, so not sure if it was related).... I had a better outcome the next cycle.. Though we are not pregnant yet....

@esined87 usually after 3 days the male factor comes at play, so your result does not necessarily mean anything is wrong with your egg quality.

We also have a male factor, and the result of the first ICSI cycle was a shock (only 1 early blast at day 5 which failed to implant, and nothing to freeze). I was 33 at the time of retrieval with no known issues.

We did have better numbers after the 2nd retrieval and our 5th transfer was successful, so my advice would be to keep trying.

I'm really sorry to hear this @esined87 ❤️ I think after day 3, it's more likely a sperm issue. What supplements does your partner take? It might be worth looking at a sperm dna fragmentation test as well.

Our situation is different to yours, but my miscarriage doctor suggests my dh takes impryl, coq10, zinc and vitamin D as well as me being on a number of supplements.

So sorry for your outcome for fjrst rkund OP, rounda can be wildly different so dont give up hope. After day 3 the male genetics carry the embryos forward so it's likely to be a sperm issue. We had ICSI for to male factor, a varicocele that couldn't be operated on meant all my husband parameters were very very low, and though we never had a fragmentation test it was something we feared due to reading up so much on the damage oxidisation does to sperm. He did what he could to improve things despite the varicocele. In the three months leading up to our cycle he ejaculated every other day to keep things fresh as they only need a few sperm for icsi so he needed to keep things fresh to avoid oxidation and therefore dna damage. He took proxeed, quit caffeine and alcohol and stopped having baths, just showers. We can't scientifically know for sure if it worked because we don't have a round to compare as we only did the one. Got 7 eggs from me, all fertilised and I rang every day expecting to hear of a huge drop off because of the sperm issue but they all went to day 5 and were good or top quality. One slowed down and wasn't frozen, fresh transfer didn't work but first frozen one did. So something must have helped as his parameters were so so so low. I hope your next round goes well xxx

@contentsmayb@TumbleweedAgain@VenusStarr@Imisscoffee2021 Thank you so much for your kind words. I didn't know about the male factor again being an issue after day 3 - we'll definitely ask the clinic about that. And I don't think a DNA fragmentation test has been so far, so we'll be asking about that too.

My husband is taking a mixed fertility supplement with coq10, zinc, vitamin D and many others. His parameters are actually not terrible (they are low but could be much worse) - our clinic seemed fairly confident that ICSI would work for us. He also made a few lifestyle changes (cutting down alcohol) etc, but I suppose he could have done more - same goes for me. I spent several weeks training for a marathon during our last cycle, and I can't help but think this has a negative impact on my egg quality 😔 We'll both be much more strict for the next cycle.

Thank you again for the advice and all the best to all of you ❤

Sorry to hear the results of your first round, wishing you luck for your next round 💖
Please can someone recommend which brand of CoQ10 to use? Is Holland and Barrett version enough? I am due to start my first round in January and was only advised to take folic acid and vit D, which I've been taking for the last 2 years x

@waitingforourmiracle H&B CoQ10 is what I'm using. During build up to stimulation I was on 600 and have reduced to 400 now I'm pending FET as it's more for egg quality than anything else

@waitingforourmiracle Thank you ❤
I'm using this one: https://www.sunday.de/en/coenzyme-q10-ubiquinone-200mg.html But I expect shipping might be quite expensive to the UK (I'm living in Germany). As long as it is at least 200mg you should be fine - I'm also taking 600mg per day.

We were similar in the sense that I only had one fertilised egg by day 3 after Icsi. We transfered day 3 and i am now 15weeks pregnant with that one chance we had. I can’t imagine how upsetting it was for you to get that update on day 3 but don’t loose hope, it’s not always about the numbers.

I‘m so happy it worked out for you @JadeAC ❤️ I‘m curious as to why we weren’t offered a transfer on day 3 when they knew we only had one good embryo left and had already lost so many. I’ll definitely be asking this at the clinic in January.

@esined87 That is strange as we were in exactly the same position as you. We had two on day two with one looking abit better so the plan was to put one in on day 3 and freeze the other but then by day 3 the other hadn’t survived and we just had one.

Day 3 failure is due to sperm. I would try to improve sperm for a couple of months before trying again.

Your DH can take CQ10 600 gr, NAC, Alpha lipoic acid, lycopene, zinc.

You should also do a DNA fragmentation test.