Slow Growing Embryos

[Impatientlywaiting10]

Hi all,

Wondering if anyone has been in the same boat/has any advice to share. Just had our first IVF cycle through NHS. We got 13 eggs, 8 fertilised. We were completely shocked when we arrived to the transfer today to be told that none of them had reach blastocyst stage. The embryologist said that all 8 had looked good on day 3, but then they’ve just been growing very slowly since then. They transferred two back in but basically implied there was next to no chance they would implant, have already lost hope on that front. I’m so confused how this could have happened and can’t seem to find much info online. Has anyone else ever had this happen before/had any advice?

@Impatientlywaiting10 - Hey! Slightly different situation for me as i had a freeze all so no fresh transfer. I had my EC 3 weeks ago, 19 eggs, 17 mature, 10 fertilised, 8 looking good on day 3 however only 1 5AB on day 5 and 1 grade 2 frozen, im grateful for 2 but also really sad all those others didnt make it with no explanation.

We are classed as unexplained infertility TTC over 2 years, im 35 so it made me think of all those months/years trying was due to something going wrong month after month with fertilisation/ embryos - does that make sense as to only get 2 from 17 seems like a huge drop off.

I think it can depend on age, egg quality, sperm etc. was you and your partner on supplements?

Whilst it may seem like your chances are low there are lots of success stories of people having lower grade embryos working out and vice visa x

We seem to produce slow growers. Our first fresh cycle we collected 6, 5 fertilised, 1 day 5 morula who became our daughter (very lucky). Our second fresh round this year for a sibling resulted in a low grade day 5 blast (unsuccessful transfer) and another they grew to day 7 which reached an okay grade but was an unsuccessful frozen transfer.

An up to 50% drop off for fertilisation, again at day 3 and again at day 5 is within the realms of normal. The older you are the bigger the drop off usually as egg quality is poorer. How old are you?

Try not to have no hope, they wouldn't have transferred them if that was the case. Grading is somewhat of a beauty contest - it only tells you what the embryo looks like at that particular moment in time, not what it will go on to next. Yes those at blast stage by day 5 are statistically better but plenty fail and plenty lower grades sometimes become a successful pregnancy.

If this is unsuccessful I would go back to the clinic and see if they would do anything different.

@NatW2021 although frustrating your drop off is within normal numbers. Higher numbers of eggs often results in more that are immature and won't fertilise. 10-12 is I think thought to be optimum. You say you're unexplained - what investigations have you had? Robert Winston's book 'the essential fertility guide' is excellent. He is a strong advocate of not going into treating something before you know what the problem is.

@SErunner 17 of the eggs were mature. 2 didn't fertilise and 5 fertilised abnormally (2 or more sperms) my clinic advised usually 30%-40% of fertilised make it to day 5 so i am classes as below average on this occasion.

We have had most of the tests available, i wish i had the funds/time available to get to the bottom of it. We are private IVF so I know if we paid for all the advanced testing around immunity etc we wouldn't have anything left for IVF. Every test we have had has come back normal and have already spent thousands. I'm at a loss what to do next.

It's interesting (and frustrating) how the narrative can be different isn't it. 2 embryos out of 17 mature eggs doesn't sound like a bad result to me though. I wouldn't worry about the grading of them, lots of specialists place little value on the headings these days. When you say you've had most of the tests available, what have you had? The book I suggested is really helpful for the stage you're at, I'd highly recommend.

I had exactly the same results during cycle 1. Same numbers. Everything looked amazing on day 3 and then they all died by day 5. I was so shocked and devastated. During cycle 2, with same medicine and same everything, had a different outcome (4 blasts). Third cycle I had only 5 eggs and 3 blasts in the end. It really varies from cycle to cycle. Don't let things discourage you. That is why they usually say that women needs 3-4 cycles on average.

Thank you @contentsmayb, that was exactly the bit of hope I needed today! I’ve been going down a Google rabbit hole and convinced myself all my eggs must have been terrible quality. Did you change anything between cycles and how long did you wait between each one? We will have to go private for our next round so I hope then we will get some more monitoring/information as we only had one scan with NHS.

@Impatientlywaiting10 The only things we changed for the next two cycles was add ICSI. Bu then again, even egg collection outcome was different from cycles 1-3. We ate better, we drank less or no alcohol. But I don't know if any of this stuff made a difference... I am convinced it's all a gamble and doctors have no idea what works or what doesn't. You just try again and again and hope for a better result.

Egg quality and age is a big factor I think. For example, even though we did get 4 blasts in the end, after we PGT-s tested them, 2 were bad and 2 more were low-mosaic. Still waiting for results from this cycle...

I think the only advice I can give is prepare yourself for several cycles. It's going to take more than one or even two. It helps to manage expectations.

Wishing you all the best. It's not an easy process.

@contentsmayb yes I agree it all seems to vary so much from cycle to cycle for people that does seem like a bit of a gamble. Interesting to know re the ICSI, maybe we will discuss that with the Consultant.

I’m 32 and keep getting told that my eggs should be good quality which is why I was so shocked by the outcome. I wasn’t expecting it to work first time but I was expecting to at least get 1 blastocyst out of 8 fertilised embryos. As you say though, I know it can take a few cycles so I will hope for the best!

Wishing you all the very best too with this cycle, I hope your 3 blasts are all good ones and you get the outcome you’re hoping for 🤞🏻.

@Impatientlywaiting10 Our doctor said that first cycle is always a test. They pick the meds that they think might for work you. Next cycle they might do exactly same thing (it seems like you responded well to the meds, for example, it's just something went wrong after). And third cycle is when you actually begin to see some sort of similarities. Because they can compare things between each cycle.

Everybody is different of course, some are lucky and things work immediately. I hope second one will be a good one for you! :) Best wishes.

@Impatientlywaiting10 hi! I know this thread is a couple years old now but I am in a similar situation! Did you have any luck with your next round? If so what did you change if anything? X

@Hopesforamiracle yes we did, now have an 8 month old son so don’t give up! We went private for our next round, not sure if you are London based but we went to ARGC. Had an absolutely awful round, I even tried to cancel it midway through as one of my ovaries wasn’t responding for some reason. In the end we carried on and got 6 eggs, only 3 fertilised and two were looking good on day 3. I was devastated thinking given what happened last time that we basically had no chance. Given the previous round they decided to transfer both embryos on day 3 and one took! I kept reading posts like this one on mumsnet and thinking it would never happen for me but just have to keep the faith and keep going. The only things we changed were putting them in on day 3 and also they monitored progesterone throughout the period after the transfer and I think this helped (as I actually had a chemical the first time around). My husband also took impryl but other than that we didn’t make any changes to our diet etc. in fact I actually had a drink the night before the transfer! Wishing you the best of luck!