ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread #6

[Gardenlady543]

@Janefx40 @birdbybird @seven201 @Gardenlady543 @patientpatient @MyEasterEggs @thislittlebird @Yuliaaa @Violette22 @2021ivfagain @OrangeBengal @Enfys23 @Loz2467 @DEIVF @Hopeful199 @ER12 @greendress789 @Douchas12111 @Lori2022 @AdviceForJane @Anonbaby @Molls87 @ChickenT2b @GoldenElephant @IVF22 @StillTrying10000 @warrior101 @whatcangowrong @Yaynayokay

Oh yes it really has happened we are onto thread #6.

All are welcome to join us, we started out as people interested in ERA EMMA ALICE but we seem to have had every test available between us.

So if you want to know about the microbiome, reproductive immunology or you just feel your case is complicated and what like minded people to talk to about it you've come to the right place

@2021ivfagain total minefield the microbiome 🤦‍♀️ Hope it feels better soon. I think mine gets sick of being interfered with then springs a new issue

Hi all, I’ve been a bit of a lurker but recently wanted some help and advice if anyone can offer some wisdom 😊 Here’s a recap: we got two grade AA 5 day blasts after a fresh cycle. I had a failed FET, did an emma, Alice, era and it came back with around 30% lactobacillus and 30% gardenerella. The consultant put me on amoxyclav and metrobactin. I then used canesflor pessaries, biokult oral capsules and I’ve been having lots of actimel and kombucha. I’ve had the repeat emma and Alice done now (ERA was fine) and the nurse has just told me I’m good to go for another FET and to repeat the one week of canesflor. However the results show everything has been wiped (including lactobacillus). My concern is, I’ve read I need at least 80% lactobacillus to have a good chance at implanting. (In 3 years I’ve never had a positive so never implanted as far am I’m aware!). Will I be wasting my last frozen embryo?? The clinic hasn’t recommended repeating the biopsy for the 3rd time. 😔😔😔 any advice would be greatly appreciated 🙏

@Fluffykins33 can you upload your past result and this one?

@2021ivfagain my updates have just been I thought I was having a really long cycle and was measuring LH twice a day but it was a 25 day cycle and I got my period unexpectedly. I have the HSG booked in for next week though. That's good that you are close to a transfer cycle :)

@Gardenlady543 Thanks for replying! I’ve added the results for both times, let me know what you think. the clinic said I can go for it this time or next cycle but I’m a bit dubious about the lactobacillus increasing if it hasnt already with the canesflor, biokult and actimel!

that’s great news that you can finally book the HSG @Gardenlady543 aren’t our bodies and hormones sneaky sometimes 🙄

Thanks so much for the 2WW good wishes everyone. I’m surviving just. Had a real wobbly yesterday but managing to find some peace with it today. Sorry to post and run but thought maybe someone would know the answer to this - can progesterone be too high? I checked my levels 3 days post transfer just to check that things maintaining post transfer and they’ve gone from 48nmol/l on day before transfer to 148nmol/l on day 3 post transfer. I’m worried that might be too high? Can see optimal range around 75-100? I had done the lubion injection an hour or so before the blood test. I’m doing Lubion in the morning and doing Cyclogest 400mg at night rectally. Thanks for any insight and help if anyone knows.

@Fluffykins33 it's good that you were put on both co-amocivlav and metronidazole, as you had amount of anaerobic bacteria, that the metronidazole would target. Someone else has recently had a result similar to your second one, it means that the amount of bacteria in the sample they analyzed was low overall, however the result states that the make up of the bacteria present was a normal microbiome. I wouldn't be worried by the result that you've got. You do need to put effort into re-colonizing though. You may have seen how I recommend to do this, you don't just need the good bacteria but you also need an acidic environment. It's the Lactobacillus being present, which cretaes this under normal circumstances, in the absence of lactobacillus you need to create this yourself. You can do this with a product such as balance activ. There are also some vaginal probiotic that have the acid component in them, such as vagibiome. I've spoken about, good vagina probiotics products in the last, fhe one that is easiest to get in the UK is canesflor,. However, there are product that you can order from abroad which are much better, flora femme from the USA is expensive, but has the most bacteria of any product. I also like vagibiom because of it containing acid as well as the lactobacillus. I wrote this about the microbiome which you might want to read www.reddit.com/r/infertility/comments/rwsxwy/theuterinemicrobiomeemmaalicemenstrualfluid/?utmsource=share&utmmedium=iosapp&utm_name=iossmf
You should then use a vaginal probiotic every day in your FET, I would recommend stopping a couple of days before the transfer and recommencing a couple of days later.

@Enfys23 I was worried about this in my cycle as I read that it's optimal when lower and there are studies showing the outcomes are lower when it's very high, however the specialist clinics want it over 100 and clearly having it lower in the past didn't help me. Mine was around the same as yours. You aren't on much progestrone though, so I assume it's come out higher as you'd just taken the lubion, I do mine before morning meds.

Thanks @Gardenlady543 I think that must be it that the higher level reflects the fact I’d taken the meds already.

The consultant said I could do nothing at all because I’ll have a functioning corpus luteum as a completely natural cycle, but that there is some evidence of benefit for luteal phase support and given I’ve previously started bleeding before OTD best to do it. So it really is just meant to be a boost for the luteal phase support.

I’ve previously been on Cyclogest twice a day but really glad I have Lubion this time. Plan when I was going to medicated FET was to do a higher dose but this seems (I hope) ok for natural cycle. I can’t do Cyclogest vaginally as it gives me a horrible reaction down there and then almost instant thrush, so I then get panicked about microbiome, and then rectally really irritates my colon so that I’m not sure I absorb much. I’m coping better with doing the Lubion in the morning and the Cyclogest at night so I can try and ignore my colon! I hope it’s ok 😬. Sorry loads of TMI there.

@Enfys23 I use cyclogest rectally too because I'm stressed about the microbiome, I read that it absorbs better rectally anyway and my understanding is that the absorption is fairly quick, I try to avoid going to the bathroom for an hour after though, but I expect most is absorbed in 20-30 mins.

@Gardenlady543 thanks so much! I’ve already done a course of canesflor but will look into vagibiome as well as balance activ. Thanks so much for your advice! Hope we all get there in the end 🤞🤞🤞

@Gardenlady543

Good luck with your hsg. I hope things move in a positive direction. I had a short cycle before I started IVF when I was younger.

I’m concerned about my transfer. Would the metronidazole have wiped out all the lactobacillus I built up? I’m trying to have a range kefir daily and had tempeh today. Also taking lots of oral and vaginal probiotics. I don’t know what the answer is. I know I had a low amount of lactobacillus to start with. Is it to do with stress and age (getting lower oestrogen). Problem is due to fsh levels I’m running out of time. I’m on Dhea, wheatgrass, omega 3 and 8 days a month zumenon.

@Fluffykins33 It’s good you’re having lots of probiotics etc. It’s strange you were given two antibiotics. I was only given metronidazole for gardnerella.

@Enfys23

I took cyclogest rectally due to microbiome issues. If you get ibs, I took Inessa Advanced Biotic complex worked well for me but had to take 2 a day with breakfast. They work well but really expensive.

Also, when I got pregnant with my son at transfer stage my progesterone was 155. They said anything over 100 was good.

Thank you @2021ivfagain thats so reassuring x

@2021ivfagain I’m really sorry you have this worry about your microbiome. Sounds like a lot is riding on your next transfer so that won’t help your worry. I’m just starting the microbiome journey so can’t really advise.

Does anyone have any thoughts on when to work on the vag microbiome in relation to upcoming PGT cycles and hopefully a transfer somewhere down the line? @Gardenlady543 ? I’ll have a PGT-M/ PGT-A cycle in March. Depending on results I’ll do more cycles and go for transfer if/when I have a suitable embryo. (I’m old, just turned 44 :(, and I have to do PGT-M as well so who knows if I’ll get one to transfer.. I got one age 43 so fingers crossed).
Should I take antibiotics now or wait until I have something to transfer? I now have my probiotics suppositories (one pack), they took a while to arrive from US. Perhaps I should get more probiotic suppositories lined up too? I’m generally reluctant to take antibiotics but swab showed virtually 0% lactobacillus in late Nov and predominantly group b strep and prevotella so I ought to take them. GP gave me co-amoxiclav. I’m guessing I shouldn’t wait and just get on with taking them? I just don’t want to get in a cycle of needing repeat antibiotics down the line. Having said that I’d definitely re-test microbiome before any transfer but I just dont want to start for scratch then as time not on my side.

Hi everyone. Hope all is OK. Feel like I've missed loads, had some family stuff going on.

Dh got his testosterone result, the consultant said 12 and under he'd prescribe clomid and its 12.8 🤔 will have to wait and see what he suggests. I sent off my sample for the ureaplasma this week, so hopefully my result will be back this time next week. I've decided to put myself on hydroxychloroquine again as of next week to give it time to get into my system. April is coming round fast now...

Still having crappy formatting issues 🤦🏻‍♀️ love to all ❤️

@CailinInUK
Good luck with your egg collection. I’m almost regretting taking the metronidazole again but I had some symptoms. Now after finishing metronidazole last week it feels worse. It’s really affecting me as I’ve cut out all the foods I enjoy and I’m being really strict. I’m drinking kefir daily. I’ve cooked with tempeh as well. I avoid stock cubes and yeast products. I seem to have to live on canesbalance and vaginal probiotics at present.

I did read a blog about a woman who conquered bv with taking Ceylon cinnamon tablets orally each day but I’m worried about possible interactions with medication. Apparently, the cassica cinnamon is not as pure as Ceylon. I do have cinnamon on porridge. Have others heard of it?

I would start early with antibiotics so you have time to put back good lactobacillus but I’m not an expert. @gardenlady543 has given me really good advice. I’m taking two vaginal probiotics a day one in morning and evening. I was alternating with canesbalance and vagibiom but I think I need extra canesbalance even though vagibiom has lactic acid. Canesbalance contains glycogen as well.

Could someone advise on whether I should do another repeat swab for gardnerella? I’m starting to think it’s always going to be there. I’m scared of ruining my chances. All I know is when I take canesbalance daily plus vaginal probiotics things are better.

I would take the antibiotics now so there’s time to rebuild good bacteria and retest before transfer.

my personal experience is that I can have too many probiotics. On two occasions I think that using probiotics has caused symptoms that then go away when I stop them. So baffling to me! I swear I’ve not been the same down there since I started messing with it 🤦‍♀️

thanks @2021ivfagain @Lori2022 that’s my concern too, that I’ll mess things up further! I’ve never had any symptoms or issues. But clearly having strep and prevotella confirmed down there is not good. I wonder if that’s since I had the various IV antibiotics in hospital. Wish I knew at the time to immediately dose up on the vag probiotics but my head wasn’t straight due to circumstances.

I’ve not heard of Ceylon cinnamon tablets @2021ivfagain, just Ceylon tea! Regarding swabbing for gardnerella, sorry I don’t know. Maybe consider what you would do if the result was positive (or negative). Would you be prepared, and have time, to act on the result?

@2021ivfagain metronidazole is a antibiotic that tends to spare lactobacillus, but it will likely kill some. Some people are prone to having dysbiotic bacteria, all you can do is try and optimise and take daily probiotics in a cycle.

@CailinInUK I work on it in the cycle before a FET, if I'm worried I'll take 7 days metronidazole (as I get anaerobic bacteria) and then use probiotics, some people are prone to an abnormal microbiome. If you know you have these bacteria present then get on and take antibiotics asap, and then do daily probiotics in the FET when you do one.

@VenusStarr I just did a hormone check on my husband, his testosterone was ok at 14. But prolactin and cortisol were above range, I think he is stressed. I hope you are feeling ok, what type of cycle will you do in April?

Thank you @Gardenlady543 maybe his result is ok then. Just feels a bit borderline to me. Sorry you dh is stressed. It's a lot ❤️
April will be superovulation, using letrozole and gonal f. Just waiting for the schedule.

@VenusStarr did your husband do the sample fasting and around 8am? It should be done like this for accurate results. I hope you get some answers soon and don’t wait too long for your urine results.

Yes @Enfys23 it was just before 9am so he just ate when he got back. Hopefully the clinic will come back to him on Monday.
Hope you're OK x

@VenusStarr glad it is not a long wait for you. My no phone plan hasn’t quite worked out the last couple of days! I am going to try again, it was good for me. I spent most of yesterday googling if carrying heavy weight could affect implantation because I’d been moving boxes to unpack stuff following our house move and felt some cramping 🙄. Just not a helpful thing to do. 4 days until OTD now. Having never had a positive pregnancy test and the last OTDs being such painfully horrible experiences, I’m partly wanting to remain in ignorance, but the desire to test early or for Wednesday to be here is overwhelming sometimes too. I am not feeling very hopeful but maybe that’s some self preservation. I don’t know how I’ll cope if it’s negative again. I feel I’m losing all faith that my body can do this at all. I keep walking around our house and garden thinking it’ll be perfect for a kid, and just feeling this huge sadness it might never happen and guilt I cannot make this work for my DH. Then guilting myself for being negative in case that doesn’t help the process. It’s such a mind isn’t it.

Thanks @Gardenlady543 . Just took my first dose, they resemble horse tablets!
Wishing all you ladies something joyful this weekend. This is a rough journey.

Sending big hugs @Enfys23 ❤️ I've never wanted to test early in ivf tww but ttc naturally I always seem to. Try not to be hard on yourself, this stuff is hard.
I think I'm coming to terms with it not happening for us, this break has definitely done me wonders. I was having my haircut yesterday and I just felt like me again, it was nice.
Just back from my exercise class and I'm almost certain I ovulated. It felt so strong. Super early though, cd9. So much for impryl lengthening my cycles!

@Enfys23 our messages must’ve crossed. I’ve been thinking of you lots. TWW is such a fearful time. Whatever you do or think will not affect the outcome. Be gentle on yourself, you’ve tried your best no matter what.