ERA / EMMA / ALICE testing thread 5(!)

[VenusStarr]

Just setting up a new thread as we're coming to the end of thread 4.

@Janefx40 @birdbybird @seven201 @Gardenlady543 @patientpatient @MyEasterEggs @thislittlebird @Yuliaaa @Violette22

❤️

Great news @Janefx40 can you ask if the lab can add the serum progesterone on? They should still have the sample.

@seven201 I'm ok, I took the steristrips off today and booked in a review with the surgeon for next week. I'm feeling quite a lot of tiredness now, think thinks like this really take a lot out of the body.

@MyEasterEggs I think back to my first IVF in November 2020 and I was fitter, had less medical issues, positive attitude. Every cycle that goes by just gets tougher.

@Loz2467 could you do a preovulation scan to check on lining in the next cycle?

@Janefx40 omfg!!!! Woweeeeee. Sorry, you probably don't want over excited people, but I can't help it! Annoying about them not doing all the tests. Hopefully they can test your existing sample.

@Gardenlady543 it really does take its toll and can be incredibly frustrating.

@seven201 thank you.

Now we have those Hcg results, I'm going to stop updating this thread about this transfer but always happy if people want to get in touch and I'll still be on here chatting about other stuff as long as I'm welcome x

Of course you are welcome x

@Janefx40 that sounds very encouraging!

What particular blood tests did you have? Is serum progesterone something you have to request? I’ve read that some meds can interfere with that particular level.

@Janefx40 a tentative congratulations.
Am very happy to keep receiving updates from you.
At almost 42, I may be the oldest one on this group.
Last week I got the ivf miscarriage tissue results. They detected trisonomy 18 plus some indications of trisonomy 13. I also Pgt-a tested the left over blast and it was missing chromosome 19.
So the ivf consultant has suggested high dose folic acid (5mg) to help with the chromosomal issues…anyone heard of this helping?
So I’m wondering if my issue is eggs even though I have an appointment next week at the CRP clinic.
The ivf clinic said I would need to wait 2 months for the folic acid benefits so I can’t do cycle 2 until November.
Im also tempted to try naturally around the time of the appointment with dr Shehata. I may have ovulated but not implanted and so won’t fall foul of the “not pregnant” test. At my age am worried about losing a good egg if it was meant for that month. Does anyone think this is a bad idea?
I had a free counselling session and while she was a bit helpful was mostly doom and gloom.

I should say it’s not that I can’t. It’s just their suggestion to wait 2 months for the benefits of the high folic acid. But I can’t find any evidence of this.

I’m sorry to read about the results you’ve had @birdbybird. Have you ever read It Starts With The Egg? I found that particularly helpful for focusing on improving quality and I also see a fertility nutritionist. I’ll never know for sure if these things helped us get normal embryos but was willing to give anything a try as I’ve also lost a baby with a trisomy and 4/7 of my embryos had either missing chromosomes or trisomies. Testing the embryos was still worthwhile even though we’d done a lot of work on egg and sperm health. Has your partner had any testing? We had male factor issues too. Normal basic sperm sample but he actually had high DNA damage and an infection.

@birdbybird it must have been hard getting those results. Hope you're ok. I did a very superficial Google and a few papers came up about folate improving egg quality tho I haven't looked in detail.

Trying naturally this month is a tough decision. I'm always guided by avoiding regret. I ask myself, if the process doesn't work, will I regret having done x or not done y.

If it makes you feel better I am 45! Hate even saying that out loud!!!

Hi. I wonder if I can join this group again. I have had good advice from @Gardenlady543 regarding gardnerella. I’m 41 now and preparing for my frozen transfer using superovulated modified FET cycle. I will be on 225iu meriofert every other day. I did not do era or immune as I got pregnant without this with my son in 2020 with a fresh transfer.

I did a repeat swab for gardnerella with nhs and they said every normal. I tested vaginal ph and it was 5. I did not feel great so decided to take canesbalance for bv and on second packet. Feel much better. Ph now 4.2. I have had two private swabs but waiting on those. Meanwhile, I’m taking a prebiotic every morning, kefir which is full of lactobacillus, oral probiotic for vaginal health which is full by Invivo and has lactobacillus crispatus, gasseri and more. I will also take lactobacillus vaginal canesflor probiotic for 7 nights after this. Then I will take metronidazole for 7 days. Did anyone take probiotics while taking this antibiotic? Then I thought I would restart everything again with canesbalance, canesflor pessaries, probiotic, prebiotic and kefir. Did anyone take kefir after transfer?

@Molls87 Did you do something similar? My nutritionist recommended bio me femme from Invivo to take vaginally and orally but to alternate with canesflor. So far I’ve just been taking it orally with kefir. I also took lactulose vaginally and it irritated me so I stopped.

@2021ivfagain it's absolutely fine to take probiotics while taking antibiotics, I would always recommend this alongside an antifungal (clotrimazole 100mg pessary or clotrimazole cream) as antibiotics can kill off good bacteria leaving the body more susceptible to thrush and getting good bacteria in helps recolonize, normally it's recommended that you space it out a bit from the antibiotic, so take it a few hours after. I wouldn't recommend putting oral probiotics in the vagina, not sure about that one but usually they are not designed to dissolve in the vagina.You can get vaginal probiotics with the good l.crispus strain in, like Physioflor
www.sanareva.co.uk/physioflor-vaginal-flora-natural-probiotic-7-capsules.html?queryID=7ba247daa28306736d35e5cc6b5bb8fb&objectID=22151&indexName=productionengb_products
And vagibiom
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vaginal-Probiotic-Suppository-30-Natural-Vaginal-pH-Odor-Control-No-Parabens-/283702366882?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

Kefir is always good, I have had a water kefir colony for a number of years now. My only concern about your plan is why you are going to take metronidazole, it sounds like you have a good microbiome going, so I would just stick to the vaginal acid products and probiotics.

@birdbybird I'm sorry to hear about your results. I think taking folic acid is always a good idea, I take methylfolate 5mg as I have the MTHFR mutation, if you haven't been tested for it then I'd recommend taking methylfolate. You can get it from Amazon. There is no reason to hold off trying naturally while on supplements.

@Gardenlady543 "@thislittlebird ah well clarithromycin is broad spectrum, so maybe you could try and do that course rather than co-amoxiclav, then do the metronidazole after you've finished and reassess the microbiome."

So I bought the metronidazole, should I take it right after the clarithromycin is finished, or should there be a gap? I have a transfer booked for Sunday.

@Gardenlady543

oh ok. Did you say though that metronidazole spares good bacteria?

Hi @Gardenlady543 could you tell me which brand of methylfolate you get from Amazon? Or a link would be even better.
Ive never been tested for mthfr and don’t know who to ask to get tested.
Im nervous about switching to ordering from Amazon from a Boots prescription.
I’ve asked the ivf clinic about methylfolate. Who could do an mthfr mutation blood test do? Is it a gp?

@Gardenlady543

I ordered them when my ph was higher and consultant agreed. Also they said for transfer I have to take doxycycline but it triggers ibs and sets me back. Also doxycycline would get rid of good bacteria. It upsets my stomach for months. But they said I would need an antibiotic for transfer to avoid infection.

@Janefx40 glad your tests were ok!

@Gardenlady543

I’m going for baseline scan today. But what can I do about antibiotic. My body has hated antibiotics as I had to go through 4 egg collections.

@MyEasterEggs my partner did the comet test last week and is expecting results in 2 weeks.
I just bought the it starts with the egg book after reading snippets of it for many months/years.

@Gardenlady543

could I use canesflor vaginal pessaries if taking bio me femme oral probiotics that have lactobacillus crispatus already? Thanks. You have been so helpful.

@MyEasterEggs I just sent you a DM!

@Janefx40

Congratulations. Do you have to have your progesterone tested?

I’m going to CRGH today for baseline scan so hoping there are no issues.

@thislittlebird so this is a tough one, if you were not in a transfer cycle I would say leave 2 days between the courses. I'm not sure if it's best to hold off completely though while in a transfer cycle and stick to a vaginal acid product and daily vaginal probiotics. Metronidazole may do more harm than good at this point in the cycle, I think maybe it would be best to take the course of metronidazole if this cycle doesn't work out, followed by a course of probiotics with a vaginal acid course. And right now do daily vaginal probiotics, keep an eye on the vaginal pH and use a vaginal acid product if needed.

@2021ivfagain a hard one to answer and I guess the reason I'd be reluctant to take metronidazole in a cycle as littlebird is considering. I am by no means an expert on this having only read a few articles, but my understanding is metronidazole spares lactobacillus more so than other antibiotics eg vaginal clindamycin which is going to wipe everything out. Articles like this one www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1784636/ indicate that higher concentrations of metronidazole do inhibit the growth of lactobacillus and I noticed that when I was taking metronidazole my vagina pH was 7, I think at least one other on the thread had a similar experience. So I would do a full course of metronidazole IF there was evidence that the microbiome was off balance (symptoms of BV like a fish smelling discharge, high pH or the bacteria being present on a test), which in your case it isn't and it was followed up by lots of good bacteria- which you would need adequate time to do. I would be reluctant to take metronidazole otherwise.

@birdbybird
This is the methylfolate I take:
amzn.eu/d/gxjKMji

I personally think everyone is best off taking methylfolate vs folate since the MTHFR mutation is very common. I know some specialists think this is a load of rubbish. Some prenatal multivitamins clearly take it seriously and include methylfolate rather than folate, like the one I take:
amzn.eu/d/0qHIhy9
When I first got diagnosed with the mutation I was advised to take 5mg folate but then I read this is the worst thing that can be done as this leads to a build up of homocysteine.
My MTHFR status was tested in level 1 recurrent implantation failure tests, I think your specialist should be able to test for it.

@2021ivfagain yes you are absolutely fine to take an oral probiotic while taking vaginal probiotics, I take an oral probiotic daily (and always will- we all should) in addition to vaginal probiotics at regular intervals. I mix and match a lot with the probiotics I take, as I assume my body will decide what it likes and m various types of lactobacillus would likely be useful for the microbiome, I think l.crispus is the one with the most evidence.

I think people @ me while I was writing my last reply so @ me again if I didn't cover the answer in it. All I can do is say what I would do with the microbiome, I'm not a specialist in the area and it's an area where there isn't evidence available on all the aspects.

Thanks @Gardenlady543 .

So what you’re saying is that methylfolate is better than folic acid for everyone but especially if you have the mthfr mutation. But too much (5mg) is bad for anyone who’s got the mthfr gene mutation. Is that right?

I can do the mthfr test at my clinic.

Really appreciate you sharing your knowledge!

@Gardenlady543 thanks! I did wonder if the transfer would change things, don't want to mess anything up. I'll use the probiotics and can I check what you mean by vaginal acid product? I've got a couple of probiotics (vaginal/oral) recommended in this thread, as well as 6 x 200mg canesten pessaries from the GP nurse in case i need them.