ARGC/ Lister / IVF Spain - help!!!

[MarySunderland]

I’ve had 4 fresh cycles at my local NHS hospital. 1 resulted in a twin pregnancy, which I lost at 10 weeks, and the others failed to implant. I now want to try a new clinic but I’m having difficulty decided which clinic to try. Does anyone have any recent experience of ARGC, the Lister or IVF Spain? Thank you

I was with Lister recently and very impressed with them. They were my 3rd clinic. However they were suited to my issues around being a poor responder with male factor issues.

I have heard good things about ARGC for those who don’t really know why it’s not working and want a kitchen sink approach and I’ve heard good things about Spain (Alicante I think) re dealing with severe male factor.

if I were you i would organise an online consult with each clinic and see which best fits your needs.

and always bear in mind that many people love the clinic that got them pregnant so it’s not always objective views on how good they are or otherwise..

Hi @MarySunderland I am so sorry for your loss. Have you looked into immune testing at all?
I am interested to see the responses here too. I have just done 2 cycles this year at the Agora in Hove privately(I live on the south coast). I have low ovarian reserve and my first cycle responded badly. Second cycle only 2 eggs, one pregnancy which soon ended in suspected miscarriage but 6 weeks later I found out was an ectopic in my right tube! Clinic told me when I ‘miscarried’ that I was definitely not at risk of an ectopic 🙈. So I’m considering going elsewhere and I have also been reading about the Lister. I’ve had a lot of recommendations for it. I’ve also read good things on the ARGC but I believe you are looking at more like £14k for a round of ivf with all the bells and whistles of tests and meds.

Thank you @HiltonB for your advice. It’s great to have such a balanced view. I’ve booked an appointment with the Lister. I’ve already had an appointment with ARGC and found them quite dismissive and confusing! However, their results are so impressive it’s hard to see past the stats.

@Ems123456789 so sorry to hear about your ectopic pregnancy, it must have been a very difficult time. I’ve had killer cell tests and my levels have come back normal. Our fertility issues are just unexplained, which makes it difficult to know what to do and which clinic to try. Hopefully this thread starts some interesting discussions which can help us (as I feel clueless about where to go and what to look for in a clinic!)

IVF Spain is really good, I did there my first cycle and then I changed (for personal reasons) and went to Cyprus

Hello

I have recently had consultations with each of the Lister and ARGC and trying to figure out which way to go. This will be our 4th cycle and I'll be 41 when we do it. We have had very mixed results (increasingly poor!) on our previous cycles. I liked the Lister and didn't expect to like ARGC but did like the sound of some of the things they suggested (eg transferring lots of embryos on day 2 rather than waiting to see if they make it to blastocyst), especially because we have had an issue of getting embryos to blastocyst stage..... plus having had a bit of a relaxed offhand approach at my last clinic, the prospect of having more regular bloods and scans is actually pretty appealing. Plus I looked at the stats and they are quite impressive for ARGC.

Does anyone know if the cost of ARGC is realistically £15k per cycle? I've heard some mention £25k and to be honest that might be a bit too much for us (effectively equivalent to 2.5 cycles anywhere else)...

Also I have heard the stats might be a bit manipulated: does anyone know if that's the case? I would have thought all clinics would be trying to do that to be honest....

@99pctpractice yes I’ve heard they manipulate the stats. If it looks like you’re going to have a poor outcome you go to a different clinic for egg collection etc so you’re not included in ARGC stats.

I was actually put off by wanting to put multiples back due to increased risks of multiples pregnancy.

like you I did like the idea of the much closer testing during Stims though!

price wise it depends on how much immune treatments you need. We were told to budget 30k for a round but some did do it on 15k you just don’t know in advance which group you fall into. If it works though then I guess best to have spent two rounds worth on one round and be pregnant than go through two rounds elsewhere

Thanks, @HiltonB

I've been trying to figure out which is their sister clinic.....but my sleuthing on the hfea website has come to nothing!! I can't figure out which one it would be....

Yes, they suggested transferring 3 embryos on day 2 to me, which sounds like a lot. But having had 3 rounds of ivf with one double embryo transfer the first time and then no genetically normal embryos for the next 2 rounds, I guess I'm possibly a bit more relaxed about multiple transfers.....I'm 40 so the odds of good eggs are much reduced! It's a very different approach to other clinics though : where they would suggest pgt and then only put back the ones they knew were potentially viable. Not sure how I feel about the fact the Argc make you pay upfront for pgt and then only refund you part of the fee if you don't have any embryos to test. There is zero upfront cost to pgt so I don't know on what grounds they justify it. In the unlikely situation that we have embryos to freeze, I don't want to go through with a FET of an untested embryo, especially somewhere where the process is so involved and the cost of a FET (once you factor in immune testing etc) is so astronomic.

@99pctpractice I personally don't believe that they manipulate stats at ARGC because I did a round at age 43 and wasn't transferred to another clinic. Also, knowing the way Mr T works, I honestly can't imagine him bothering. He is obsessed with IVF and not especially interested in self promotion etc.

I think the difference in stats is due to a few things and one of them is simply putting back multiples more often for all ages. If you look at their stats on the HFEA they are not that different if you look per embryo transferred to other clinics (ie for each embryo transferred what is the live birth rate and a single triple transfer counts then as 30% success). But if you look per cycle started (where one triple transfer would be 100% success) they are very different and much better - so this is largely because they put back multiples which means, yes they have a higher rate of multiples.

They are a great clinic in many ways. The close monitoring is good. The nurses are very supportive. They will throw the kitchen sink at it and never drop the ball. Your cycle won't fail because of something that could easily avoided like at most clinics. The cost really mounts if your cycle is successful because your monitoring and immunes will continue for most of the pregnancy. That is where the £15k can become £35 depending on what you need.

However it isn't the most structured or calm.

I'm at CRGH now and it is much more like a standard medical appointment. Two nurses in clean looking clinical rooms. They are also a good clinic but not nearly as good I would say. It's calmer and more organised but they don't do the closer monitoring and you are just another patient. I don't feel particularly supported but I do like that I have access to my own consultant whenever I like.

Best of luck xxx

Hi @MarySunderland I moved to the Lister and have been really happy with them. They have a lot of data which I love, every time I ask a question they’re able to give me stats. We ended up with 6 good quality embryos from this round compared to 2 at my last clinic. My first transfer ended in a chemical, but given it was the first time I’ve been pregnant (within 5years of trying, 2yrs of treatment) I saw it as a positive. I had consultations at 3 different clinics to help us decide where to go which for me, was certainly worth it and I was clear who was right for me after that.
happy to answer any questions you have.

@Agapanthus13 I would also view that as a positive. My last transfer also resulted in a chemical pregnancy which I also viewed as progress! I am trying to get a consultation with the Lister but they have been slow to respond. We had a consultation with IVF Spain yesterday which, at first, I thought was positive but when I received the documentation they had failed to mention that in order to meet the timescales for a biopsy I need to start meds today (not sure why I need medication for a biopsy) and book two scans in the next few weeks (and they could only recommend clinics in London which isn’t too helpful when I live in the north of England). So I have been left feeling disappointed with the communication and a bit confused.

Has the Lister dramatically changed your medication/protocol from your last clinic? Also, did you need to do many preliminary tests with the Lister? I’m keen to start a fresh cycle and don’t want months of delay. Thank you in advance for your help!

@MarySunderland in terms of my egg collection , no, the protocol was pretty much the same, they just upped my meds (which 1 of the other clinics also said they’d do, but one said they keep me on lower dose). They also gave me a different trigger.
in terms of tests etc, I had copies of all my tests from my previous clinic and they were within the 2year time lapse window so they happily accepted them. I think there were a couple of bloods I needed but they emailed me a list and I had them done through my Gp. The other reason i liked them is they do bloods with you 2day scans during egg collection, not all clinics do. You’re asleep for the egg collection, again this suited me well. And they offer the Access Fertility which I like for the cost certainty. With me, their aim was to increase the number of embryos from a single collection which they certainly succeeded with.

regarding contact, if you need to speak with a nurse, I find I call or email and I get a response within a couple of hours. For dealing with the consultant their pa is very responsive again, usually within an hr or two. Nearly all my correspondence has been with the nurses.

I work close by which is handy as I find they tend to go for more rather than less scans/ checkups.

hope that’s of some help.