Embryo glue for my frozen transfer?

[Bluehawaii29]

Hi guys, so after a failed first fresh transfer last month I have 4 frozen ones left thankfully. After a chat with consultant today she felt they were all good enough to transfer and advised transferred 2 on our next cycle sometime in feb. she mentioned embryo glue which is an add on to our nhs funded cycle and will cost £250. Apparently it helps them stick better. Does anyone have any experiences to share of this working and also their experiences of transferring 4BB embryos.

Thank you

I don’t have experience of it working but it is a safe add on so no harm to use it. I just wanted to post to say that if your embryo is hatched or hatching embryo glue can have a negative impact so just be sure they’re not hatched if you’re going to use it. Good luck!

I would have a look at the HFEAA website and what status it gives glue - i wouldn't be surprised if it's red - meaning not enough evidence to suggest it makes a difference.
My clinic didn't offer it for that reason

In terms of the 4bb - it's a pretty good grade - in the region of 20% plus chance of being successful. One of my twins is a day 6 4bb x

Thanks @Liathroid, as far as I know they are not hatching as they are not AAs. They already used my 5 AA already in first cycle without glue and that one failed. Still have to discuss with the embryologist further about the glue but this is what consultant said and she said it does apparently improve chances in a subgroup of patients who failed to implant in other cycles so thinking of just giving it a go. I will ask the embryologist though about what you mentioned. All I know is that it just is a different medium containing hyaluron which helps the embryos viability and subsequently with implantation

It's not the AA but which means it's hatching - it's the number so a 6 is hatched 5 is hatching 4 (which you have) is expanded

It's can go from a 4 to a 5 very quickly - within a matter of hours once thawed

As @tiggerwhocamefortea said it could hatch when it’s defrosting on the day of transfer so just to be aware of that. It is quite normal for your first cycle to fail however, it can take up to 3 transfers. It seems a bit random suggesting embryo glue after just one fail. But if you have the money it’s no harm to try I guess.

I didn’t realise that, yeah I might have to rethink about this glue idea. I did think it was a bit odd she was saying after just one failed cycle but because it’s our last nhs funded cycle we wanted to give it the best chance. It’s so hard all these decisions, my mind is going crazy already

I had glue for my FET in Nov '19 which resulted in my ds. I had another FET Oct '21 which did not include glue (because my clinic had since decided it didn't do anything) and that also worked (so far). So in my experience, it does no harm but isn't necessary. I'd probably be inclined to try it if my clinic suggested it, just so I could feel I'd tried everything.

Just to add - my first FET was NHS and I didn't have to pay for the glue (or the scratch which they've also stopped doing since). It was just considered part of my funded cycle.

Thanks @Holskey for that info, yeah I think it is worth doing even if it just acts as placebo. I’m thinking of it as the ‘magic glue’ which is making me more excited about this cycle and I’ve heard it also works better for multiples which the consultant also suggested about using 2 of our 4BBs. I am also with NHS but these things are all add ins now and they didn’t offer me a scratch either but I did have an endometrial biopsy in September last year so not in a hurry to go through that kind of pain again

Hi guys my consultant just emailed me back and said she has confirmed with the consultant Embryologist and there is no issue with hatching embryos and embryo glue. The medium is entirely non toxic to embryos.

@Bluehawaii29 I’d still be wary if the embryo is fully hatched. I can’t find it now but I was on a thread where a woman had a failed PGS normal transfer of a hatched blastocyst using embryo glue and another girl who was a scientist linked to published research showing it can have a detrimental effect on a hatched blast. I can’t find the paper but it was one of those things that stuck in my head. If I come across it I’ll put it in here.

Ok cool I think they put it in the medium like 10 mins before the transfer so I’ll just make doubly sure what stage it’s at. Last time she showed me a pic of the embryo and what stage it was in the transfer room itself

@Bluehawaii29 I found the post. Sorry it actually wasn’t research based but this is what it said. Might be of use to someone else.

*I have been thinking a lot about whether to share this but I think you're at a place where you need to constructively evaluate and see if there is anything you would do differently. I hope I'm reading that right.

This information may or may not help so I've really struggled with whether to share or not. I hope I'm doing the right thing.

I didn't say anything previously because the decision to use EmbryoGlue was already made and I didn't think me sharing what Dr. B told me about EmbryoGlue would have helped you during your tww.

I'm really sorry if I made the wrong decision.

When I met with Dr. B, it was the visit where we put together a plan of action. I had a list of all the things I understood that could help including PGS, Endometrial Scratch, Frozen as opposed to Fresh Transfer, and EmbryoGlue.

He told me that he wouldn't use EmbryoGlue with a PGS tested embryo. That it was only a very recent mandate that had been given to all Care fertility clinics because they had observed that the EmbryoGlue sort of dehydrated the embryo. He said they thought it was because of the biopsy that the embryo was no longer protected and the glue could seep inside and cause damage.

His information came across as anecdotal; that it was just a pattern that they'd observed and not really backed by clinical investigation.

At my own transfer, I asked Dr. O if they still weren't using EmbryoGlue with PGS tested embryos. He said it was more that they didn't use EmbryoGlue with hatching or hatched embryos because they didn't need it. The bit of the embryo that was hatched was very sticky and would naturally adhere to the uterine lining.

I don't know whether he ignored me specifically asking about its use with PGS embryos because it was no longer relevant or because my blastocyst was already hatching so he was answering my specific situation in that moment.

I've searched online for any information on EmbryoGlue + PGS Embryos/Blastocysts and EmbryoGlue + Hatching Blastocysts and I haven't found anything so I can't point you to empirical research stating not to use EmbryoGlue in these circumstances.

And Dr. O didn't answer in relation to PGS embryos, only hatched or hatching ones so maybe the advisor was reactionary and with more clinical investigation they confined the advisor to just not use with hatched or hatching blastocysts.

I'm sharing because I can understand that your focus needs to shift to the future now and maybe this is something to pursue with your clinic.*

Thanks for the info, yeah I can understand why maybe not so good with PGS tested embryos but we are not doing that and I haven’t read enough evidence of any harm so I think our decision this time will be to go ahead with it. We also already had a hatching 5AA blastocyst which failed on our first cycle when didn’t have the glue so I don’t want to make the same mistake again if it can improve our chances this time

We lost the ‘best graded’ embryo that time and now we will always wonder if the glue could have made a difference. I also wish that it had not been wasted on a fresh cycle as have heard a lot of good things about frozen cycles working better but I guess a lot can be said in hindsight sadly

Honestly @Bluehawaii29 it’s highly unlikely not using an add on was the reason your transfer failed. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence on here that highest graded blasts are often abnormal (women sharing their PGS results). For this reason I actually transferred my worst graded embryo first and I’m pregnant (transferred a 3BB over a 5AA, 4AA and 3AA). Statistically, with 5 embryos from your first round, half will be abnormal or higher depending on your age. There are also other things to consider like the micro biome of your lining, sufficient progesterone etc alongside embryo quality. So don’t be hard on yourself about not using the glue. It’s no harm to use it in subsequent transfers but it is rated orange by HFEA after all.

Thanks for sharing that, yeah I also got this info following the 5AA transfer when I started on the forums. A part of me kinda knew that it was too good to be true but good news is that we also have 2x3BBs left. That’s why I was saying to the consultant that I prefer if they transferred them first but she said they always go for the higher grade ones first and since I’m with nhs I don’t think I get much choice on that. Hoping the glue makes a difference but I’m not going to start thinking negatively that it will cause any detrimental effect either. I think it’s just because this is our last funded cycle we want to feel like we’ve given it everything

In terms of the progesterone that is also being addressed this cycle, she is giving me Lubion injections in addition to the twice daily cyclogest so feeling more positive my lining will be ready this time and more in sync compared to thy fresh cycle when I was all over the place

@Bluehawaii29 Hi! i know this is a late reply, but i was wondering if you started your FET and used glue? I have had a read through this post and i dont mean to be ignorant (i probably just dont understand a lot of the things said!) but i still feel like using the embryo glue would be a good shout for me.
Just wanted to know how you got on x

@SUMMERTIME02 hi yes I used the glue and it worked! Am 5wk + 3 pregnant now :) we had two embryos transferred also so got scan on 13th April to see 🤞🤞 would definitely recommend the glue as we never had that on our first fresh cycle which failed x

[quote Bluehawaii29]@SUMMERTIME02 hi yes I used the glue and it worked! Am 5wk + 3 pregnant now :) we had two embryos transferred also so got scan on 13th April to see 🤞🤞 would definitely recommend the glue as we never had that on our first fresh cycle which failed x[/quote]
yaay! im so happy for you, congratulations!! Since posting on here, i've been doing some more research and i decided i was going to go for it. fingers crossed it works for me too.
Wish you a happy and healthy pregnancy and baby! All the best xxx

@SUMMERTIME02 thank you! Wish you lots of luck for your future cycle! Xx

Congratulations! Lovely news. We used the glue too - now 34 weeks pregnant. No idea if it helped or not, but ours was a day 6 hatched blast.

@SerendipitySunshine hi thank you ☺️ Glad it helped you too. We used 2 x 4BB with the glue and today we saw two gestational sacs with heartbeats. Looks like we having twins and both stuck! X

That's amazing news! Congratulations!

@SerendipitySunshine thank you!