ERA/EMMA/ALICE Testing Thread 3

[Janefx40]

Hello all,

This is a continuation of the ERA/EMMA/ALICE Testing thread.

New posters are welcome. On here you will find a group of women who are either doing these tests or have done them already and are further on the journey

This is the friendliest and most supportive group so feel free to join and post

Xxx

@Gardenlady543 I wondered if the inflammatory markers might relate to immune issues so I’m thinking of going to Dr Shehata. My clinic have said they’ll test immunes but I think that just means a repeat of Chicago tests and I’m not convinced it’s the right way to go. I just have a gut feeling that there’s more to it. Going to keep digging and not rush into next stage as my body feels pretty tired right now.

I'm not sure about that @MyEasterEggs firstly it's your vagina not your uterus. There seems to be evidence that inflammation is needed in the uterus for implantation to happen. A few of us have had immune panels recently, I had NK assay, NK cytotoxicity, Th1/Th2, LAD, HLA DQALPHA A1 matching. I also had uterine NK cells in the past.

@MyEasterEggs that is really interesting info. Did you feel like they were trying to cheat you somehow or was it some missunderstanding? I mean with the test that wasn't what is was supposed to be.

Did they find something from the London Chicago tests since your Serum tests were negative? www.lifeclinic.gr/en/services/price-list/

Does anyone know what is typically included under the "Chicago tests"?In this other Greek clinic's link that I posted there are so many other tests included, so I don't know what to think anymore.

@Violette22 the DNA fragmentation is £550 at our clinic! They didn’t treat it as such just recommended that he take proxeed plus every day (which he does). He’s actually gone for another test recently as we had a pretty awful IVF round so we are checking to see if DNA fragmentation was (the possible) cause

@Gardenlady543 can I ask why you think you need a two week programme of metronidazole? My clinic keep prescribing a weeks course only (@500g x 2 a day) and I’ll challenge it if you think it should be more.

@CurlyJ21 a few reasons, firstly if there is an active infection that has managed to get into the uterus then that to me would indicate more aggressive treatment being needed, if multiple results have come back as abnormal, again more aggressive treatment is needed. There is also some evidence that gardnerella can be resistant to metronidazole although the doctor from fertilysis told me he finds it can almost always be eradicated it's just the course required may need to be longer, part of the reason for this is likely because gardnerella form biofilms around itself. To cover all bases I also went with vaginal clindamycin, this will take out anything I'm told!

@Gardenlady543 my thinking was that the raised cytokines in vaginal fluid might be somehow relate to those found in my blood. I’ve had some of the tests you’ve mentioned but want to revisit. Who did you have those tests with?

@Violette22 it’s tricky. As I said, I was happy with the team, and we considered returning for IVF. But then I discovered what had happened with the sperm DNA tests and I think they would (or should) have been aware of the difference. We were left to assume there had been a huge drop in damage and it would never have occurred to me to question the actual test. In reality it wasn’t much of a change for us and I believe they should have been clear on that. So much time has passed I haven’t actually raised it and doubt I ever will.

My Chicago tests were positive but I’ll be repeating those as it’s been a few years!

Hi everyone and welcome @MyEasterEggs and @CurlyJ21

I think you've had most of your questions answered at this point so I won't jump in.

@Violette22 typical Chicago tests check NK levels and how they respond to different meds as well as your cytokines also known as TNF alpha. I have attached my results so you can see what is tested

For those of you who have had immune testing in the UK, did any of you see Dr Shehata at CRP instead of having the Chicago tests? He appears to have developed his own battery of tests and I’m leaning towards going to him for focused, specialist help on immunes while continuing with my clinic for endometrio and eventually FET.

hi @MyEasterEggs yes I am with Mr S as are quite a few of us. My results with his tests were the same as my Chicago results although he doesn’t trust Chicago because he thinks the samples don’t last the journey.

I like him but am only in early stages but I think the re-testing was a bit of a waste of money x

Thanks @Janefx40 yes I heard him talking about the Chicago tests on a fertility podcast a couple of weeks ago. I last had the Chicago tests through Zita West in 2017 and these were my results:

PAI-1 gene polymorphism - heterozygous
NK cell assay - slightly elevated activity
TNF alpha: IL10 ratios - slightly elevated

The last two were repeated by Serum in Athens after six months of being on an anti-inflammatory diet and were normal. I must dig out the actual figures as I think it’s probably worth repeating in my case xx

@MyEasterEggs you will definitely need to repeat them - if you are going to Mr S then don't bother doing Chicago elsewhere as he won't accept the results anyway.

Can you remind me where that podcast is? Someone else posted the link but I've lost it and would like to listen

@Janefx40 thanks for sharing those results although I cant really read the text as it is so small. Do some clinics also take chicago bloods without testing how they respond to medicine? Hearing that your test results from Serum were the same than with the other makes the serum test sound reliable. I have sent them an email to ask what is included in their chicago testing alon with a bunch of other questions.

@MyEasterEggs did you have the hysteroscopy at Serum? If so how did you find it and what did they do?

I am feeling very overwhelmed with all the information and stuff with Greece. Why does trying to get a baby have to be so complicated.

@Janefx40 the podcast is here podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-fertility-method-connecting-you-with/id1613615538?i=1000555426953
I’m with Dr S at CRP and would recommend him. I also do the IVF through his clinic linked to Kings and it’s been working really well. Any questions give me a shout x

Hi @Violette22 yes their approach to the hysteroscopy is the main reason I went to them. I found the procedure okay. It takes place at the local hospital and you also have some prep the day before. I can’t remember what exactly. Maybe some bloods? And then I had to strip off my top half and have a monitor attached to me which I found totally unnecessary. But then I figured they would be between my legs the next day so seeing my boobs wasn’t a big deal. I did feel quite exposed and vulnerable but if I’d known it wouldn’t have been an issue. They were very blasé about it all. It was just me who was self-conscious. I genuinely found the team and experience very caring, supportive and informative xx

Thanks so much @Janefx40 it helps to know what to expect. Until I listened to that podcast I didn’t know he did all his own tests so I guess I should be prepared to cover them all. His secretary has been really responsive so I just need to wait for my next cycle to start and then I can book to see him around the time I’m having a mock cycle. I think I may as well get down there instead of delaying xx

@MyEasterEggs I've had all my tests with fertilysis, it's a bit of a faff as you need to arrange for a blood draw and also centrifuging, if you read back in the thread you will see that I ended up buying a centrifuge!

I have just ordered the DNA fragmentation and male sperm microbiome test through them today, figured that it's worth checking.

@Gardenlady543 absolutely. The male factor tests were so beneficial for us after years of being told he had super sperm!

@MyEasterEggs my husband is told this as well, his counts are well above the normal range, his morphology right on the borderline although I understand that it's the absolute number that matters so this is probably ok. Only weird thing is every time he has a sample he has agglutinisation, aggregates or high viscosity, I think this can be due to having a high count to volume ratio, but I guess it's worth checking out if there's an infection hiding. The semen infection test will be done the same as the tests I've had looking for RNA. I'm hoping the DNA fragmentation comes back clear, we shall see I guess.

@Gardenlady543 exactly the same for my partner. Great basic semen analysis besides high viscosity. It’s something they address during IVF when they “wash” the sperm I think. But I don’t believe it affects TTC as we’ve had multiple natural pregnancies. We’ve decided on IVF so we can have PGT-A xx

@Gardenlady543 thank you for all that information. I’m starting to wonder if I’m left with infection and inflammation or I’m not sure how it works. I know my potential polyp won’t be helping my lining.

I’ve had the most frustrating month. Trying to cut a long story short I ovulated early this month which threw my date for hyterscopy, D&C and polyp removal off! Basically the clinic called me to say they’ve had an cancellation next Tuesday 26th if I want it. Problem is I’ve been expecting my period and it hasn’t come. Just my usual spotting. I’ve NEVER missed a period and I’m finding it so frustrating. I’ve done a test and it’s negative which I knew because we didn’t TTC this cycle but I thought I have to be 110%. I mean it could be caused by stress? I’m not sure.

the other date I can have the procedure is 17th May but because of this missing period I’ve no idea where I’ll be in my cycle. He’s also putting me on chlomid and I obviously need a period to start that.

my cycles were always on the dot and the moment I get started with fertility treatments they just end up going crazy and even missing.

has anyone any advice what to do and what date to go for? I was thinking the sooner the better but I’m not sure.

@Loz2467 does it matter what time in your cycle you will be for the operation? Fertility treatment causes cycles to go all over the place so yeah it is really hard to predict timings.

By you didn't try do you mean you've not had sex at all, if so then obviously you're not pregnant, but if you had sex but assumed you weren't in the fertile window then there is still a chance and you don't want to be having surgery if there is a chance of that, you could always get a blood beta hcg booked in before the surgery date to make sure.

@Gardenlady543 the Dr originally said after O but before my period which worked with the 17th May but then he actually said it doesn’t matter when I in the cycle. I questioned it a few times and said does it alter the success rate of it and he’s said no. I’m just so worried now I’ve missed a full period and it’s never happened - I can only think of stress but I haven’t been more stressed this month if that makes any sense!

we literally did the deed not around fertile window but I did a test anyway this morning because I started worrying about an ectopic! My mind works in crazy ways. But anyway it was negative and I ovulated 16 days ago. I just can’t get my head around it.

part of me says don’t wait a further 3 weeks and just go next Tuesday as long as I’m not on a bleed to get it done but the I don’t know when I’ll bleed to start chlomid whereas if I wait till the 17th I wonder if I’m likely to get my period after and then can start the chlomid but the. I guess regardless of the time my lining will need to rebuild again?

not sure if I’m talking sense 😂🙈 thanks so much for all your help.

@Loz2467 I'm sorry you've got this stress of your period going awol. I'm having a hysteroscopy to remove scar tissue and they just said as long as I'm not on my period. I'd be inclined to go next week.

I hope everyone is OK. I'm really struggling at the moment. Still not had confirmed details for my hysteroscopy next week. I've chased the clinic and they've not replied.
I also came on over the weekend and it was horrible, so painful and heavy. Doesn't fit with the scarring issue. Feeling very fed up with it all now.

@VenusStarr thank you! I’m thinking the same maybe go sooner rather than later but then I’m panicking thinking will I get a random period or will I ovulate. I’ve never had a missing period so I don’t know what my body would do naturally let alone after the hyterscopy. I just hope the lining is okay to find and remove the polyp or what ever the area is. Also have a biopsy to check for chronic endometritis and hoping he just gives me some strong antibiotics after anyway.

Sorry to hear about you not having your surgery confirmed yet. Your right the heavy period doesn’t match the scar tissue. Hopefully not long now until you get some answers. We’re your clinic not bothered if you went after ovulation?