Anyone at (or been at) ARGC?

[Jamtea123]

Hello, I'm looking for some insights into ARGC from people who are/have been patients there please! After a couple of disastrous cycles elsewhere, we're considering ARGC for one last go.

I know it's 'boot camp' style and staff are not the hand holding type, which I can live with. But I have some more specific questions I would be so grateful if anyone can help with?...

You have to go in for scans and bloods every day (including Sundays)? From your baseline scan onwards is it? Do you ever have to come in twice a day?

Are wait times for bloods and scans long? I've heard you don't get appointment times, it's first come, first served, is that true? Is this the reason its hard to work at the same time as cycling there? Has anyone carried on working throughout?

What's the average wait time for scan/bloods if you turn up at 8 or 9am for example?

I know it's super expensive due to the immunes they put people on after transfer, is that right? But from what I've seen I think the costs up to that point are comparable to elsewhere? I can't seem to make decent blasts so I don't want to pay a fortune if I don't even get to transfer.

Finally, are you glad you went there? Did you go due to failures elsewhere? I love my current clinic but I do think the daily monitoring may help me.

Thank you in advance!!

Hiya, immunes is basically a review of your NK Cell levels. In short, if the number is too high it could be stopping you from becoming / maintaining a pregnancy as the body thinks of the foetus as foreign cells that it should attack.

This website explains it quite well: www.news-medical.net/amp/health/Natural-Killer-Cells-During-Pregnancy.aspx
ive on read the first few paragraphs after that I think it gets a bit detailed!

ARGC tool bloods and sent them to Chicago for review. My levels were high, so they put me on 2 rounds of Humira. It’s an injection you order and self inject in the tummy. After 3 weeks, they do another blood test to confirm if the levels have gone down. Mine went down by 1 point which is not much so now they gave me an intralipid IV to hopefully reduce the levels. I have to go back for another blood test next week to see if it worked.

i think the process is pretty standard for everyone, we just react differently.

hope that helps x

All staff and nurses are very friendly and supportive. Wait times are circa 40 minutes but you can grab breakfast in that time. They are not very transparent on costs and do not explain. They just send pricelist but for me doing it first time I got surprised by the cost in the end which were over 10k for one cycle. I am now going to try create fertility who do 3 cycles for the same price. It's natural or mild stimulation though but that might even be better than being pumped full of drugs. I have been waiting over a month for my test results and had to pay another £30. I still don't have them which is not great. I don't recommend the clinic.

thats really interesting… I just sadly had a failed cycle at ARGC - I do have complications and obviously nothing is guaranteed. But due to the cost I was considering other clinics….

whilst financially it is stressful, not getting results and info would also stress me out!

Hi @CurlySue7 just wondering what happened with your immune journey at ARGC? I am having treatment there and have been recommended Humira after a failed transfer as they did my bloods and the cytokines level was 55... I'm a bit confused by it all though!

Hi, don’t worry it’s easy to get confused especially on this topic as there is not much out there!

my immunes were high - but I suggest next time you go in, take a photo of your results. Most of mine were within range but things like Cytokines, CD19 and CD5+ were above range.

it’s not a bad thing - least it’s something that explains why you need IVF!

ARGCs normal response is to put patients on Humira as it has the best proven record and is actually cheaper than other options. It was simple to order, gets delivered to your door and was easy to inject. Mine was one of those syringes that you inject and the spring goes off to cover the needle once you’ve administered. Didn’t really hurt more than the other daily injections.

Though statistically it has proven results, for me I only dropped from 39.9 to 38.8. and was gutted as I had to wait a fair amount of time too… the next route of Action was to put me on a £300 Intralipid drip (man made protein solution) which reduced my levels.

it lasts a few weeks where as Humira is in your body for ~6 months. But I did find it reduced my levels.

Sadly, I had other complications which meant further delays and a frozen cycle. I had another drip.. my levels were still on high side but we went ahead with cycle (recommended) but my preg test came back negative.

not had my debrief yet but from what I can gather the only known fact is that my levels were high - my embryo was high quality, womb was fine, progesterone was over 300…. I responded very well

therefore next time I will be ensuring my levels are much lower before I transfer. But it is a lottery… there’s no knowing what really caused my embryos not to implant

hope this helps… feel free to ask any specific questions x

@Twigg12 I also had Humira but it worked for me. I was previously at ARGC but actually elsewhere by this point. It was hard having to wait while I took Humira but ultimately worth it. Of course you can never really know but I think it made the difference. I'd had a chemical with a euploid then Humira and then success. Actually if I'd listened to ARGC when I was there and taken immunes more seriously I might have had success sooner.

glad to hear it was happier journey :)

was there anything else you changed during the process to reduce inflammation? Someone has recommended cutting out dairy and gluten… but I know milk was important for eggs during stims so I’m in 2 minds!

Thank you so much everyone for replying! So it was just my cytokines that were elevated - they were 55 when the normal range was 13 - 30, so I guess that is pretty high? I just have no idea what is super high vs just a bit high and whether the difference between the two is meaningful. I actually had the intralipid drip with my last transfer and it was those results that triggered them to re test me now as they suspected I may need treatment pre transfer. Argh it’s just so confusing and I hate that it sets us back. Especially if I do the treatment and it doesn’t lower it….

I’ve had a miscarriage, multiple operations for RPOC, ashermans, more operations, thin lining, a failed FET - I don’t know what else can go wrong at this point!

any other words of wisdom would be super appreciated here! Xx

I’m so sorry to hear this - sounds like a bumpy ride.

all I can offer is that my levels have been under 40 and I’ve had a fresh and frozen cycle fail. I can’t guarantee it’s due to this one issue but on paper it’s the only thing that seems to be present.

did an intralipid help at all? I would ask for to get a doc to call you… walk you through the benefits of Humira and whether there are any other options.
I guess the question is have they seen it be successful for people in your situation. immunology is not 100% proven to have chase and effect. The jury still seems to be out - though Dr T does seem to get good results. But if you are not 100%, maybe it’s worth looking at what else could have been a cause.

I think sometimes you have to trust the clinic but we also need to be mindful that we are all different. I’ve always been quite pro ARGC but I’m also now thinking ok they are successful but how many of those success cases are similar to my situation. I have healthy embryos so if 50% of the successful people are due to embryo issues then those Stats are not really applicable to me. It’s all relative…..

Keep smiling, it will happen when we least expect it!

Thank you @ChipButton. am sorry for your set backs too :(

I have a call with a doctor tomorrow afternoon so I’ll ask all of these questions and make the decision from there but I guess I should give it a go at least once. I don’t know if the intralipid made a difference as they didn’t retest me after that but the transfer failed with a healthy embryo so as you say on paper could be the only thing left.

It’s hard to keep going but hopefully we’ll get there in the end!

@Twigg12 @ChipButton I was super skeptical about immunes because as you say the research evidence isn't good. But then I did embryo banking and testing and had quite a good rate of euploids. That made me question my previous untested failures that I'd assumed were down to abnormal embryos. I then thought...well if I got 50% euploids now then I probably had more euploids before when I was younger but only 1 pregnancy. So why did the others fail? I then took immunes more seriously and had success. But who knows really if that was the key factor or not?!

@Twigg12 I didn't do any special diet for transfer but I did follow It Starts with an Egg supplement protocol. My diet was quite high in dairy but we are all different!

So confusing knowing what is right and wrong… I’ve been up all night and even at lunchtime today I’m questioning what eat!!

feel like I’m starting to become obsessed over something I have no control over! I can’t see much link between immunology/ inflammation and dairy or gluten…. I think everything in moderation!

Thank you @Janefx40 that's a helpful perspective.

To further complicate things I've just had results back from one of those at home vaginal screening kits and I've got severely depleted Lactobacillus levels (never even heard of it?!) so I'm starting to think focusing on immunes / probiotics / diet etc might actually be a helpful thing for me to do. No idea if it links at all with the immunes result but will add this to the list of questions for the doctor tomorrow! I think i need to stop doing tests so I stop finding things wrong 😂

@Twigg12 I'm a long term member of another thread on Emma/Alice results and a couple of people on there are experts on the micro biome. I'll share the link for you now and tag you on the thread x

ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 9 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/infertility/4861183-era-emma-alice-testing-thread-9

Oh thank you so much @Janefx40 ! I’ll watch out for the link 😀

hi all, so happy I found this thread. I am only starting with ARGC, and I would like to ask you - I was shocked with the amount of drugs I am supposed to take. Have not started yet but I have seen the volumes. Could you please let me know how you feel after them? Is it legally regulated that much of drug prescription? Is it even safe? thank you

Hi, can’t say I’ve done too much investigation but after 2 rounds I can say I’ve never felt dreadful. The clinic is intense hence people call it a boot camp. Your body will go through an evasive process. but there results are based on the fact that they just monitor patients more frequently - not just through bloods but scans, HSGs, etc.

The best way to explain it is, they have bench marks for where you should be during your cycle based on similar patients to you- if you are not where you need to be they will amend your meds. It’s intense and you will find your meds change regularly… it’s self injections, pessaries, tablets, etc but it’s all part and parcel of the ARGC Model.

During the IVF stims process, you need to be available. In the second week, you might be called back again in the afternoon for further blood tests and scans.

I’d be very surprised if it isn’t above board given how regulated the industry is and the amount of people that go. The docs are all very professional and I’ve never felt pushed. They present the facts and recommendations - the decision is yours. It’s 100% not about making money, they focus on results.

But ultimately you need to be comfortable- if it will stress you out, I’d advise looking else where. These guys have good results but they are not the only successful clinic!

I personally like the fact that you have frequent contact -I get my results on the day of my tests, I feel like I’m always doing something. Other clinics may take bloods and call back 3-4 days later. Some people prefer this less evasive process but for me it would be a killer!

hope that helps and best of luck!

Thank you so much, you are so lovely to reply. I am going to be 40 and after one unsuccessful IVF in another clinic through NHS we don't want to make the same mistake, so we have researched the success rates and came to conclusion that we really want to try with them. Thank you for explaining about the meds, I spoke to a few girls while waiting in line for bloods today and they said they felt there was a lot of meds but they also felt that it was thoughtful and justified and also tailored in a way. I will try not to freak out. I will start soon, I will update here on my progress. thank you xxx

I actually have just started telling a few close family and friends about my IVF - till now it’s just been my husband and I!

I’m amazed at how much research some of them has done… thought I’d share a few tips from successful ARGC patients - may or may not work but most of it is backed up with good evidence:

1. take folate rather than folic acid
2. take omega 3 fish oil rather than capsules as it absorbs better
3. look at brands like wild nutrition or Zita West - their fertility multi vits are much better quality than brands like pregnacare
4. try drinking an organic bone broth daily for nutrients
5. try to keep towards a Paleo diet - organic if possible
6. discuss taking Coq10 with doctor
7. try reflexology, Accupuncture or Mayan massages

I’ve also heard trying to stagger your vitamins (not your dr lead meds, throughout the day helps your body absorb them. Taking too many pills in one session, could lead to the body rejecting some)

🤞🏽