Age 41. Third IVF cycle with ARGC. When should I call it a day?

[Onion79]

Hi ladies,

This is my first time writing here and hoping to get some advice from you all. I've had two unsuccessful IVF rounds at ARGC so far, which was devastating.

The first was a frozen cycle, due to the fact that I had to get surgery to remove fibroids. This one yielded 8 eggs, 6 fertilized and 3 made it to blastocyst. I put two back in but they failed to implant. The second cycle was a fresh one, which happened in April. I had 10 eggs, 8 fertilized but only one made it to blastocyst. So they put in a Day 3 embryo, along with the leftover frozen embryo from the previous cycle and the fresh one. Again, failed to implant. I'm concerned that my blastocyst count dropped from 3 to 1 in less than 5 months. I've also noticed my periods have reduced considerably since I started IVF — from 4-5 days to around 3 days. Have I become a lot less fertile in just six months?

I am about to do a 3rd cycle with ARGC in June. As I'm 41, I'm suspecting that the problem is poor egg quality as the clinic said my husband's (he is 47) sperm was fine. I've started getting acupuncture treatments (with Darren Rose) as well as supplements including CoQ10, Omega 3, Spirulina and prenatal multivitamins in preparation for my 3rd cycle. I have no known health conditions, I quit smoking last October before I started my first cycle, and I'm now on a high protein, no caffeine, reduced alcohol consumption, healthy diet.

As you probably know, ARGC is eye-wateringly expensive and I'm not sure whether to spend all my savings on a 4th cycle if this one fails, or just call it a day. Would love to hear any success stories and/or tips from women close to my age who have a similar experience? Am I just too old to continue with my own eggs?

Hi @Onion79 sorry it’s been so hard for you.

I am 40 now (41 in June) and have seen real changes in my success over 5 fresh cycles, the first at 38. The first I got 7 blastocysts, then 3, then 2, then 1, then 7. I genetically tested the last three cycles and got 1, 0 and then 5 genetically good embryos. So you will see my last cycle which was in March has been my equal best, and a million times better than the fourth cycle.

They also told me my results were probably all about egg quality, but the last cycle success shows that’s probably not the case. So I am now looking at what else may be the issue (all bloods totally normal, lining always good etc).

My periods have also got a lot lighter over the last two years but I do think that’s a side effect of ivf - I googled it and it seems to be a thing for some people.

So I don’t know when enough is enough. I just wanted to share this with you in case it helps. Wishing you lots of luck.

Thanks for your message @Shamoo — your story gives me hope! May I ask if you did anything different during your 4th and 5th cycles? Did you take supplements, diet changes, protocol changes, etc? That is an astonishing difference, going from 1 to 7 blastocysts!

@Onion79 - I took a meaningful break between the two cycles (over three months), had therefore had longer on certain of the supplements I started. I lost a little weight and got in a good exercise cycle. As a result of these things I felt a lot healthier, both physically and mentally. My wife also got pregnant in that time and therefore I was a lot more relaxed I think. My protocol was largely the same but I actually decreased the amount of menapur I took each day and felt that the egg extraction was totally on the right day and at the perfect time (literally 36 hours after trigger).

It’s so tough to know what really makes a difference though.

For full transparency I also used different sperm; but as you have been told it’s not about sperm quality and I was told our first sperm was very good too, I suspect that isn’t the key for either of us.

Thanks for the explanation. Yes, indeed, it's tough to know what makes a difference in the end. It's all so beyond our control, isn't it? Anyway, I wish you and your wife the very best of luck this time. Fingers crossed for you both that it all goes smoothly.

Hi @Onion79 I’m just about to start my first IVF cycle so can’t offer any advice on when to stop trying but I was going to say would it be worth chatting to your Dr about a change in protocol?

I’ve seen some women on here report better outcomes with mild or natural modified IVF. The compromise with that though is they target fewer eggs, so overall you will have a smaller starting number but the hope is better quality blasts.

If you didn’t want to go with ARGC for the fourth round and wanted to try a different protocol there are other clinics that specialise is mild/natural which I believe are also cheaper as you’re on far less drugs.

Obviously I’m by no means an expert just wondered if it was something you had considered. Wishing you all the very best on your journey.

Thank you @RiverRiot. Yes, I actually asked my consultant today about mild IVF and she said she wouldn't recommend that for me as my FSH and AMH levels are fine. So I guess I'll stick to the traditional IVF for my 3rd round and see what that brings me. Here I go again.

Hi @Onion79 I did IVF at 41. In preparation I did the regime from It Starts With the Egg and went very low carb / high protein with my diet. I also took Dhea. The Dhea kind of threw my cycle off and my blood results (on medichecks) got a bit hair raising so I stopped it after a couple of months (a few weeks prior to my IVF cycle). I did mini-IVF and got 10 eggs with about 4-5 making it to "poor quality" blastos. However one of those rubbish blastos turned out to be my baby boy.

At 41 I still think you have a good chance with own eggs (I'm proof!). Maybe give Dhea a go but start with a low dose and keep getting your blood checked. I wish you so much luck!

@Onion79 Ah I wasn’t aware you needed to have higher FSH/Lower AMH for mild IVF.

Wishing you the very best of luck for your next cycle and really hope you don’t need that fourth. 🤞🏼

@Onion79 - thanks very much. Wishing you all the best too.

Thank you for the explanation @scatterolight — yes, the doctor at ARGC I talked to was skeptical about DHEA and also advised if I really want to take it, I should get my testosterone levels checked to see if I need it or not. Also said that I should come off it 2-3 days before starting stimulation.

And thanks for your kind words @RiverRiot Wishing you the very best of luck as well!

I appreciate this is a bit of an old thread but was intrigued in seeing how you got on…. I’ve had 2 failed cycles are ARGC and feel your pain not only emotionally & mentally but it really is difficult to justify the cost when it goes wrong.

last year at age 34, I a fresh transfer - we decided against doing immunology as both hubby and I were in the good range for everything… transferred 2 high quality embryos. Sadly although my progesterone was over 300 mnol/l, the pregnancy test was negative.

At 35, I collected more eggs and froze them. Again all high quality. This time we did immunes- My NK CD 59 was a bit high, they put me on Humira and a drip. We waited a while and then had a frozen transfer. Again put 2 day 3 embyros in…. All looked great, progesterone was stable between 122 and 212; thyroid behaving, etc.

today pregnancy test came back negative again!

do I continue with ARGC for a 3rd cycle?! I don’t feel like I don’t trust them but I’d like to hear other experiences. I keep reading about patients being successful post failures at other clinics but what about ones at this clinic?!

hope everyone’s journey has been happier than mine :)