Anyone not having CoVid vaccine because of IVF

[Hugzy]

Hi,
I'm just wondering if there is anyone who is not having the CoVid vaccine because of starting IVF?
We have opted to delay the start of IVF until March to allow for CoVid infection rates to go down. As my partner and I have decided against having the vaccine because of the lack of research and evidence around it.

Technically I could have it now as work for health care but my partner would have to wait until June.

I just feel somewhat alone in this decision, and could do with speaking to people in the same mind set.
I read an article about women in their 30s in Australia also querying the vac because there is no research around this area.

Thanks

I've had it as the risk of getting seriously ill and miscarrying or even worse having to be ventilated and baby born prematurely, isn't worth it. Also, I'd hate it if I caught it mid cycle and it had to be cancelled.

I'm interested to read this thread. I'm waiting to find out when our NHS funded IVF will be able to start (that's a whole other stressful situation). In early January a doctor at our fertility clinic said I should not have the Pfizer vaccine, but DH could have any vaccine without any issues. DH has had his first Pfizer vaccine through work, as he does go into hospitals for work (though not every day) and has asthma.

I'm expecting to be in group 6 and am so confused. The official guidance is that the vaccines are safe when ttc and undergoing IVF, but it sounds like fertility clinics are also giving their own guidance / have their own preferences.

I genuinely wouldn't know what to do if I was contacted this week and offered a vaccine.

@Hugzy

Thing is, if you test CoVid positive prior to egg collection, then egg collection is cancelled. That also rings alarm bells to me.

@Hugzy I'm not having the vaccine before IVF but just to respond to this point the main reason they'd cancel egg collection if you have coronavirus is to protect staff and other patients from catching it. So there is unlikely to be any way of knowing the effect on eggs of an active coronavirus infection at the time of retrieval.

@Anyoneelsewilldo you've said yourself you may or may not have had coronavirus last year.
It's great that after some very disappointing results previously (been there too) your more recent cycle worked out better, but I imagine your medication protocol may also have been tweaked. I mean they wouldn't usually just stick to the same regime if the outcome is poor.

As my clinic won't transfer until after the second dose I prefer not to wait that long especially with the gap between doses currently at 12 weeks. By the time I'm offered the first, then have the second, then prepare for a FET it would probably be October at the earliest.

Hopefully everyone can make the decision that works for their circumstances.
As for those whose colleagues are asking it's none of their business (although I recognise that doesn't stop some people!)

Hi,
@Anyoneelsewilldo
Sorry what does RCT stand for?
You sound angry. I have not said that the vaccine will or will not affect fertility. There is no evidence/research to suggest either way Each person is different and therefore each risk assessment has a different outcome. I'm sorry that you are one of the more vulnerable to CoVid. Thank you for the links.

@LongerthanMrTicklesarms
It has also come to mind whilst reading your reply that being sedated whilst being CoVid positive is probably not the best thing to do.

@CurbsideProphet it is a difficult decision to make. Some are more certain with their feelings, and hopefully we've made the right choice as our risks are low. I am glad we are not delaying our IVF cycle any longer. CoVid infection rates are coming down and that's a good thing too. It is stressful.

One again everyone thankyou all for your input. It is much appreciated and I am grateful for all your viewpoints.

@JandL2020 have you have any vaccines at all? Like @Donimo has had first.

@Hugzy

RCT stands for randomised controlled trials.

They're considered the gold standard in terms of scientific evidence, when conducted correctly.

Thanks @Scirocco and for your input earlier too. Much appreciated.

Looking at the mechanisms of the vaccines, I can't see anything which would suggest an impact on fertility. I'm happy to take it from a fertility perspective - my concern was about taking it if pregnant, although risk/benefit considerations mean I probably still would have taken it if we'd conceived beforehand.

One of the challenges though is that it's really difficult to get good data at short notice about certain demographics - pregnant/ttc people are one of these. The more robust clinical data probably will come from cohort studies in a few years (once the group of people getting the vaccine now get followed up).

@Hugzy I suppose I do get angry at misinformation being peddled about vaccines. I guess as you don’t even know what an RCT is I’m not surprised you believe that an absence of evidence is evidence and keep repeating that they don’t know either way. Same with how you seem to have developed some kind of conspiracy in your mind where your first thought was that egg collection was cancelled due to covid impairing fertility and not the far more obvious risk of infection to staff...

I am not vulnerable to covid at all - I just find it odd that people are turning down the vaccine when they could be protected from covid while doing ivf and being pregnant. I’ve done 3 rounds of ivf since covid hit and it’s a big worry each time of maybe getting it and the round being cancelled. I only wish I was in the privileged position of being able to get the vaccine early and eliminate all that worry.

And then like I said if you end up being someone who is has NKC in your uterus you may need steroids and you will have an additional risk factor for covid to worry about.

@Anyoneelsewilldo
I do not mean to come across as peddling misinformation and I do know what randomly controlled trials are. As you know IVF is a stressful time and I raised this thread to try and get more information and support despite my own uncertainties, not to push judgement on others.

I thought as you said you have some immune issue so you will have an even more compromised immune system and high risk of covid. Hence my apologetic nature to your heightened vulnerability.

To all others who have commented, thank you. Your input is greatly appreciated.
Please bare in mind the sensitive nature and the well-being of others as you comment.

Women with infertility issues are more likely to have NKC in their uterus necessitating use of steroids during transfer. Use of steroids lowers your immune response and makes you more vulnerable to covid. The point I’m making is that you yourself could end up in this position needing steroids which is even more reason to take the vaccine when you can.

You may have an easy first round of ivf and get pregnant but if you end up needing multiple rounds and have additional issues that need treatment, speaking as someone in this position, you would regret not taking the vaccine for obscure non-logic based reasons and having an additional worry of covid on top of ivf stress. Tjis will be even more pronounced if your ivf journey takes years and while covid is still around but the economy and country has reopened. This is my point. You could be vaccinated and safe already and there is zero evidence having the vaccine would impact your ivf treatment.

My question would be for the people who choose not to take the vaccine and fall pregnant in the next couple of months, what happens say events like Xmas when most if not everyone in your family have been vaccinated ( likely in my case using my family for example ) but you haven't?

This is a discussion I'm currently having
I'm due to start treatment in April and I've been offered it next week so we are debating it

But come Xmas when for us we stay with parents and in-laws and have a lo already
Does that mean I can't interact with friends family or attend social events when lockdown eases ?

We have a family wedding in December where travel is required and staying away and being in a room with 100 people so would I be safe pregnant unvaccinated?

Because my partner is saying not?

I work from home, the risk is low but my lo attends school when they eventually go back !

We have said we can remain in our bubble but I just feel the last year has been hard enough
Not seeing family etc
So I know people will just say stay in your own bubble which is an option but I think I'd feel anxious and worried about contracting Covid if I was to fall pregnant !

So for me I am swaying on the side of having the vaccine but admittedly not completely made up my mind

X

Apologies if this has been covered before, i have followed most posts in this thread...

Is it worth me having the first dose before my FET (hopefully March/April), knowing that if pregnant, i wont be able to have the second?

The advice on pregnancy seems clear, unless the benefit greatly outweighs the risk, you shouldn't have it, but advice for TTC has changed from delay 3 months, to now saying there's not need to avoid TTC.

I'm 42, asthmatic (not severe), currently WFH, but will probably be back in the office within a couple of months and travelling on the tube.

Reasons to take the vaccine:

1. Protected during fertility treatment - less stress and worry about getting it or worse case scenario getting it right before egg collection and it being cancelled
2. Protected from covid during pregnancy
3. Ability to socialise normally when society reopens even if pregnant and getting to enjoy normal life
4. If fertility treatment takes time to work then still protected and able to socialise normally which will be important for mental health (ivf is hard enough without having to lock yourself away too)
5. Protection from covid which has killed millions of people and given hundreds of thousands of others long term health problems
6. No covid while pregnant which may harm the baby and you also being ill while pregnant hampers what treatment you can get so you may not get the best treatment for you
7. No one has ever died from taking the vaccine
8. The vaccine is recommended in pregnancy and for TTC with a potential wait period before starting treatment by people who are experts in the area

Reasons not to take the vaccine:

1. Someone on the internet said it might affect fertility - probably derived from anti Vax people saying it would be used for mass sterilisation
2. No gold standard trial has been done to conclusively say it doesn’t affect fertility which people are taking to mean it ‘might’ even though multiple experts in the area have said their is no mechanism by which it can damage fertility.

I know which I would choose!

@strawberrysummer19 if you personally have not had the vaccine, then you would be at risk if mixing with other people, even if they've had the vaccine.

@IslandStars the available evidence indicates that one dose can still provide a degree of protection - maybe check with your fertility clinic for an individualized recommendation? It may well be that you're advised to get at least the first dose.

There was a case in Israel recently where doctors identified vertical transmission of Covid (mother to baby during pregnancy) which they think caused the baby to be stillborn. I work in a high-risk job so when I read that, I was very relieved that I'd made the decision to get vaccinated.

I think there's a lot of misinformation around about Covid and vaccines, so it's probably sensible for us all to check with the experts (our clinics and GPs) to get their recommendations, which can take our individual risk factors into consideration when interpreting the current research.

@Anyoneelsewilldo my clinic will treat me if unvaccinated, or after I have had both doses. If I have the first they won't treat me until I've also received the second dose.
So whilst it would be nice not to have to risk being pregnant with coronavirus I'm also not prepared to wait until September /October which is an estimate given that I am low risk and should be low down the priority list for vaccinations.
Your point 4 above re fertility treatment may take time to work is very true, if it doesn't work soon there may be a point in the future when the gap between vaccine doses decreases to 3 or 4 weeks which is a delay I'd be prepared to put up with, but not with the current 12 week gap between doses. I've waited long enough to restart treatment and won't be offered a vaccine anytime soon. You don't have to be antivax to have your reasons for going ahead with fertility treatment unvaccinated. I've continued with my treatment as far as possible during lockdown, it has been pretty nerve wracking knowing that the cycle could be cancelled but that's a risk I've had to take. Before egg collection I isolated and luckily made it to theatre.

@LongerthanMrTicklesarms I am also not being offered the vaccine until that time period as I am low risk. This is not about stalling your treatment until vaccinated. The posters on this thread have been offered the vaccine now before treatment starts and are turning it down due to some belief that if they take the vaccine it will affect their fertility and that their ivf then might not be successful even though there is no evidence of this and there are a whole list of positive reasons to be vaccinated when TTC (as listed above)

@Anyoneelsewilldo very good post and great points! Thank you

@IslandStars that's my question
Mine is next week but it says 2nd vaccine is 3-12 weeks but we start treatment in 9 weeks
So fingers crossed the second comes before but if not I suppose it's only delaying treatment about 3 weeks
Not a great length of time in the great scheme of things

That's my mind set I think

The thought of being pregnant unvaccinated not being able to be with loved ones frightens me over the not knowing - just seems the greater risk

Xx

@Anyoneelsewilldo very good post and great points! Thank you

@IslandStars that's my question
Mine is next week but it says 2nd vaccine is 3-12 weeks but we start treatment in 9 weeks
So fingers crossed the second comes before but if not I suppose it's only delaying treatment about 3 weeks
Not a great length of time in the great scheme of things

That's my mind set I think

The thought of being pregnant unvaccinated not being able to be with loved ones frightens me over the not knowing - just seems the greater risk

Xx

@LongerthanMrTicklesarms also the gap is not a 3 month wait. That was suggested a few months ago. Current guidance (this is for Ireland as that’s where I’m based but I also read same on U.K. somewhere I can’t find now)

There is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccination affects fertility.

You do not need to leave any gap after having your COVID-19 vaccine and trying to conceive or to have fertility treatment such as IVF. But you may want to delay vaccination until you have had the 2 doses. This is because you may get a fever after the second dose.

You do not need to leave any gap between having your COVID-19 vaccine and getting pregnant.

If you get pregnant after the first dose

If you get pregnant after the first dose of your COVID-19 vaccine, you should wait until 14 weeks or after to get the second dose.

Do not worry if you get your vaccine before knowing you are pregnant. You should wait until 14 weeks or after to get your vaccine as a precaution. This is to avoid any possible association with a miscarriage.

www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/covid-19-vaccine-and-pregnancy.html

Thanks @Anyoneelsewilldo I think the UK and Ireland are taking a pretty similar stance, the gap I'm referring to is the gap between vaccination doses, my parents (UK) have had the vaccination and got their second appointment for 11 weeks later, in some places the gap is a bit more or a bit less.

In any case the choice my clinic gave me is all or nothing, if I were to have the first dose they won't treat me until a few weeks after I've had the second dose.

So even if I were offered the vaccine tomorrow and then maybe an 11 week wait for the second, and then the preparation for my FET depending on where I could be in my menstrual cycle it could still be quite a delay.

I suppose the other thing is that those being offered the vaccine right now are in a higher risk category either due to their health, their job or both so I'm lucky in a sense that neither of those apply. Not so lucky when it comes to fertility. If I were just starting out TTC I might delay but that's a different scenario again.
Covid has definitely made the whole infertility treatment so much more stressful and I can imagine the same for pregnancy.

Thanks @strawberrysummer19 I have been running the same debates through my head also. I am in the low risk category also.

@LongerthanMrTicklesarms this was my problem also, causing further delay to treatment that I have been waiting so long for.

I raised this thread to discuss trials and tribulations around the topic. But mainly so that I would not feel alone in the process, and not feeling alone in the fact that I have not had the vaccine because of IVF being due.

There has been links shared and I encourage everybody to carry out own research and conduct your own risk assessment before making such big decisions.

It's a minefield out there.

I have found this information via the NHS website. I hope it can help.
www.rcog.org.uk/en/news/RCOG-and-RCM-respond-to-misinformation-around-Covid-19-vaccine-and-fertility/

There is s link to the following information sheet also.

Thanks for posting the RCM link Hugzy, I think it opens the debate up and considers factors other than fertility - which has never been my worry. My concern is whether the vaccine could cause miscarriage or birth defects and I know of course, there will be no proof on this until the worst happens. There is no set answer, we will all have to make an individual risk assessment at the time we are offered and I hope everyone takes the opportunity to discuss it with their clinic and GP beforehand to gather as much medical opinion as possible.

@IslandStars yes I agree, all those concerns to consider as well. As I was reminded by a family member about the effects of Thalidomide which was a tablet to stop morning sickness.