Next step donor egg or donor sperm or donor embryo

[WhatKatyDidNxt]

We have been trying for coming up to 3 years and nothing so far. 1 round of IVF was done at a well known London clinic. All embryos were abnormal so it was a fail, despite 16 eggs being collected and 6 5 day blastocysts. I don’t think the clinic did due diligence, they got us nowhere and we are now thinking of options abroad. DNA sperm fragmentation this autumn was at 36% and a lot of the embryos arrested after day 3 so the clinic thought maybe a sperm issue. I’m 41 at Christmas and are contemplating one last ditch attempt, then most likely giving up

We are wondering what we should do next;

1. donor eggs as l would 41 before we started anything realistically and IMSI or PICSI for my partners sperm. We did ICSI last time but it seemed a waste of time
2. go with donor sperm. My test results have always been excellent so far (AMF 26, AFC 30 and FSH 6 or 8). But l know clinics due to my age may well be rather reluctant and a fair percentage of my eggs will be abnormal
3. or accept together we are wasting our time (we are 40 and 38 for clarity) and go for double donor embryos.

Can you try get the dna frag down? My DH had a result of 52% and got it down to 23% through lifestyle and surgery. You could also do TESE to surgically extract the sperm?

@Racinglikeapronow yep we are trying that with it starts with the egg so ubiquinol, green tea etc. A lot of it we’ve been doing for a few years anyway e.g. giving up smoking, less alcohol, more fruit / veg etc. I have heard of TESE which sounds promising

Problem is thanks to our terrible experience with our first clinic, we have little confidence in them. Most of the useful information has been from places like this. That gave us ideas like genetic testing of embryos, DNA fragmentation tests etc. The clinic added very little value. So l was thinking experiences from people in our shoes would help and then approach some clinics who offer what we want for consultations

@WhatKatyDidNxt

What worked for my DH was zero alcohol, zero caffiene, definitely zero smoking, supplements including ubiquinol 200mg, high dose omega 3 along with standard vitamin like Proceive max. Handful of Brazil nuts a day. Healthy diet - no processed foods, lots of oily fish, limited red meat, no whites so white rice pasta etc swap to whole meal lots of veg and fruit like berries and apples rather than melon and bananas. No chocolate or crisps or sweets - swapped to Nakd bars instead.
Varicoele embolized.

Most importantly he should see a urologist to make sure there’s no infection that needs antibiotics, no varicoele that needs embolizing or other blockage.

Also could be worth moving to another clinic - I’ve moved twice so far this is my 4th round. ARGC have good success rates for your age bracket. I did several consults before choosing a clinic so I recommend that too. Ask what protocol they would do for you, what they think your chances are and even just see who is proactive off the bat at saying you need to do X Y and Z,

Personally I think 1 round is too soon to give up on your own eggs/sperm but using donors isn't for me - I'm 37 and it took us 5 rounds. If you aren't happy with your clinic try another for at least one round - as per previous poster ARGC has good results for your age group (but are horrendously expensive) and also Create

Is also ask for medication for the fragmentation - although Proceive Max for men is a good over the counter one

@Racinglikeapronow we have done a fair chunk of it: ubiquinol, omega 3, Brazil’s, red meat once a week / maybe twice, organic fruit / veg and lots of Naked bars. We could still do with zero alcohol and less caffeine (he’s a caffeine freak!). Plus non-whites. I found out the other week he had a sausage sandwich 3 days in a row at work! Some Impryl arrived the other day

We are 100% switching clinics. They are getting no more money off us. A few consultations are needed to give us more of a steer on our options

@ivfbeenbusy lm less thrilled about donor sperm, than donor eggs (there’s quite a history of heart problems and mental illness from my family). But yeah none of it’s ideal, in my dream world.

It will be 1 more round then done. We found IVF quite intense from a physical, emotional and psychological perspective. Plus lm 41 very soon so maybe it is time to give up. We have literally never got anywhere with it all

I would definitely have him off all alcohol and caffeine for 3 months before next round of IVF. Seems drastic to go to donor sperm when he’s drinking loads of coffee and still having alcohol when these are known to make a difference - for my DH they definitely helped his numbers going cold turkey.

The number one thing to do is to see a urologist if you haven’t already - my DH had a varicoele embolized which halved his DNA frag and we’ve since made two top quality blasts after none from our other rounds. I hear Jonathan Ramsey is the top guy in the U.K. there are other things like antibodies white blood cells and issues that he needs to get checked too.

If you can’t get the frag down I would do TESE anyway as apparently lots of the fragmentation happens when it’s ejaculated. Re egg quality have you had your testosterone checked? If it’s low then DHEA for 3 months could help too. I also gave up all sugar, took melatonin, low carb high protein for 3 months before our last round and like I said we had our best outcome.

Sorry I have repeated myself a lot there 🙈

@Racinglikeapronow l think part of the problem is he’s cynical about it all, due to the duff steers we have had at every turn. To be fair every doctor we’ve seen connected with our fertility has talked nonsense! Doctor 1 suggested IUI for his sperm issues , won’t work for the issue and not suitable for our age group. Doctor 2 said nothing wrong with us -2.5 years of trying to conceive and failed IVF says there is. Doctor 3 prescribed me Clomid despite no issues found, ended up with ovarian cysts -thanks! Doctor 4 created 14 abnormal embryos. So yeah all a bit lame all round

Even when we went teetotal for months then still no joy. 2.5 years in we are a bit sick of the sacrifice and no return at all. I admit part of me thinks do nothing and just be. We feel burned out, it’s put a lot of pressure on us and our relationship.

We both work in the medical field and have a fair grasp of things. So we are going to figure out what we think we need, cost it out and then arrange some video conference consultations

@whatkatydidnxt

Hi .. am quite late into the chat.. did you ever make a decision on Donor? I had it and went to the Czech Republic and I was so impressed after the experience in the UK. Its called Your Ivf journey, have a look. I was very worried about donor egg but the worries have all gone now I have my little boy and I don't ever look at him and think 'oh god he's not mine' and we are going back again for another

Am happy to chat about it all with you

@WhatKatyDidNxt I can also recommend a clinic in Prague, Czech Republic - we have been there for IVF ICSI, but I know they do egg/embryo donation too. I think they still have free consultations, so why not ask them for opinion. It´s Praga Medica. The doctors we´ve met were fantastic, professional and explained everything in detail.