DNA fragmentation

[Tonic54]

Hi, my DS is 7weeks pregnant she had IVF with ICSI for male infertility. After having the embryo transfer they had an appt with the consultant urologist who basically said sperm of very poor quality from inside testicle (due to high DNA fragmentation) so likely a genetic cause of infertility and if DS had a miscarriage he would advise not using any of saved embryos and start again using donor sperm. He also said this is a fairly new test so he's not sure on whether if this pregnancy goes to term how it will effect the baby.

DS is understandably very upset.

Just wondering if anyone had been through similar and what the outcome was, thankyou?

I'm so sorry for your daughter, partner and yourself- what an awful thing to tell someone after an embryo transfer. The stress and anxiety could be potentially very damaging and I don't understand why a clinician would say something like that when a test is very new. I think the best place to get information is on HFEA site. If you look at the add-on section they haven't reviewed DNA sperm fragmentation as there are not enough studies. I think there is such a risk in the fertility sector because there are so many treatments/ supplements/ test that simply do not have scientific backing. It also shows that something like PGS testing which was considered an absolutely ground breaking test that would massively higher womens chances of pregnancy is later found not to be the helpful in many cases and HFEA actually now advises against it (it's also banned in quite a few countries). In America where you are allowed to transplant genetically abnormal embryos it was found that some women had perfectly healthy babies that would otherwise be discarded. I personally don't think what your daughter has been told is right in a moral sense. Perhaps she can talk to a different consultant- like mine who finds everything nonsense but is very realistic about IVF chances. I'm sure he would suggests your daughter to focus on being pregnant at the moment. I'm doing IVF with donor sperm because of male factor but before we got to make that decision we had been through 2 genetic tests (which took forever) and seen two different specialists. There were no genetic issues but an operating was deemed pointless. I don't understand why the test results came after the treatment round and would ask more questions. Take care x

@Tonic54 having high DNA frag gives you a higher chance of miscarriage but there is no evidence of it impacting on baby when born. Saying to move to donor sperm is quite frankly ludicrous at this stage. My DH had 52% dna frag. Our urologist found a varicoele which when embolized meant his frag fell to 24% which is a normal level (ish). Our ivf consultant said that if the Embolization didn’t improve the sperm then testicular removal can remove a large portion of the DNA damage so there are two option that could be looked at before moving to donor sperm and usually that is in conjunction with an inability to create embryos.

on our first round of ivf where the frag was so bad we got zero embryos. If your sister got embryos the sperm must not be that bad.

I would advise your sister to 1) ignore and complain about her current urologist for the stress and upset caused

2. if she has a miscarriage then go see Jonathan Ramsey who specialises in this area.

I have definitely read success stories with high dna frag I just can’t find any or remember where I read them sorry

Thankyou both for your kind replies, I have told my sister and she feels much better. @Matilda128 I don't know why they got the results after the embryo transfer either, the sperm was taken for DNA fragmentation from the testicle so guess the results just took a while to come back. It's really interesting that abnormal embryos could produce healthy babies . Thankyou both again x

Sorry for thinking it's your daughter rather than your sister. Was the sperm taken during an operation? Then it makes sense that the test couldn't be completed before. I totally agree with racinglikeapronow and if the sperm was so bad it wouldn't have made it to create several embryos with one successfully implanting. They are doing research into the way embryos seem to be able to repair some genetic damage but my impression is that they don't quite understand how this works. This is not a medical research paper at all but I found it quite interesting to read: www.thecut.com/2017/09/ivf-abnormal-embryos-new-last-chance.html
Take care x

@Matilda128 yes it was taken during the operation to get the sperm for fertilisation so that must be why.

Thankyou for the article, it is very interesting, I wish the consultant could have given her more hope like this instead of massively stressing her out. Many thanks again.
xx

Hi @Tonic54 I found your thread and wanted to ask whether your sister had a successful pregnancy in the end? I ask because I’m in the same situation with high sperm frag and I’m 4 weeks pregnant and very worried about miscarriage. Thank you

Hi @misty84
Yes, she did have a beautiful baby who is perfect. I wish she has never had the test as it's caused so much anxiety for her, even still. Hope everything works out for you 💐

@Tonic54 I can’t thank you enough for replying. After reading your message I had my first good night’s sleep since finding out I was pregnant.
The fragmentation results have really messed with my head and I’d become a ball of anxiety. Knowing that your sister had a healthy baby gives me so much hope and reassurance, I’m going to try and stop feeling so doomed!
I am sorry that it’s continued to be such a source of anxiety for her, I can quite understand that. xx