ICSI Failure

[hopingforutopia1]

Hi all

Long time Mumsnet lurker as I've been trying not to be too obsessive over this process but now need a hand hold. We've just completed our first ICSI cycle and it resulted in a BFN. I suspect the reason is my age (nearly 42) and DH has severe MFI. I was rather laid back throughout the process, even managing the injections with my fear of needles but am now heart broken. I and my eggs are aging by the minute and I feel I will never become a mum Where do we go from here?

I'm sorry your cycle failed, its such an awful blow, isn't it?

I'll be honest, at 42, you chances of success are slim, but not completely non-existent. MFI is far less of an issue as ICSI bypasses most known sperm issues.

What it will really come down to is how determined, resilient (and wealthy) you are. Statistically, it's likely to take many cycles before you're successful, and there's still no guarantee. How do you feel about that?

I've not yet had my follow up consultation so will see what the clinic has to say. We have funds for at least one more try. I was looking for some hope but obviously there isn't any.

How did the cycle go? As in how many eggs were retrieved? fertilised? made it to day 3? made it to blast?

There is always hope, and there are definitely couples who have conceived at your age. All isn't lost, I'm sorry if I was a bit blunt

So sorry to hear this. Another ICSI here due to severe MF although we had success.

I had a freeze all cycle and managed to freeze embryos which we have had implanted individually. The FET process is not as hard as the full shebang and is cheaper. Could this be an option? Did you manage to get many embryos to survive to 3/5 days?

430West, you were rather blunt but realistic I suppose. I know this is a difficult journey which may ultimately come to nothing but I need some positivity to enable me to go on.

The only thing wrong with me it seems is age. My FSH/LH levels are both around 5. AMH a couple of years ago was 26.6 (not had it tested recently). I had a hysteroscopy prior to this round of treatment and have the perfect womb/lining. 16 follicles; 10 eggs retrieved; 8 mature and 4 fertilised. All 4 made it to 5 day blast. 3 looked a bit dodgy so they opted for a 5 day transfer of just the one. None frozen.

GransGloves, congratulations on the success! Would you advise that I push for a freeze all next time?

Cycled with Create so "mild stimulation". Should I be looking at a longer or different protocol considering my age?

Yes, I was blunter than intended, my apologies. From your update, there's plenty of room for optimism!

You have quite a high AMH, do you have PCOS? I'm afraid I'm not too well up on this, or what type of protocol would be best for you.

430West not to worry. You started my tears off again but I'm proving to be more resilient than I thought. I've had various tests/scans over the years and no signs/symptoms of PCOS at all.

I'm so sorry, its sometimes difficult to tell in this part of the site whether people are looking for support or advice and I misjudged

Don't worry. I was looking for support and advice. I am fully aware that my age is against me. If I could have started this whole process sooner then believe me I would have done. Just looking for some positivity which you have provided with your comment on my stats.

Sorry about your failed icsi. It’s not easy! Your amh level seems very good. I would say as long as you have the money and the will to try again, go for it. You’ll spend the rest of your life wondering what if? If you don’t. From what I’ve heard your chances increase as the process goes on?! Not quite sure how that works but am willing to hold on to that one myself. Wishing you all the best. I really hope you can go again and have success x

Thanks windy for the good wishes! I always said that I wouldn't go the IVF route but here I am as I had to give it a try. Chances increase with attempts? Why is that? Are you having IVF?

5 to blast is really good. So that’s positive.

On my first round they retrieved approx 11, 7 fertilised but they grew slowly and I had a day 5 transfer of 2 x morulas. BFN. No Frosties.

At my consultation they said I had old crappy eggs (in consultant speak obvs).

The second round they used more stimulation and I had 5 follicles, 3 eggs retrieved and 2 put back at day 3 transfer. I was convinced it wouldn’t work as was already in touch with a clinic about using donor eggs. I have 3 year old twins now.

I read somewhere that sometimes not such good eggs do better with an earlier transfer. Don’t know how true that is but infertility sent me a bit loony so I hung onto anything which gave me hope. it’s so tough.

Hi potters. 4 made it to blast (I wish it were 5). My transferred blast was a 4CA. Its on my massive list of questions to the clinic - next time should we do 3 day transfer?

Congratulations on the twins! Do you mind me asking how you were during that cycle?

That should say how "old" were you?

Yes I’m going through first attempt just now, which has unfortunately been delayed due to OHSS and a freeze all. Yes my consultant mentioned it but I didn’t really question it but if you google it many studies seem to point to higher chances of success the more tries you have?! I don’t really understand how but I will cling to it and continue to think positive thoughts - my new mantra! X

I was 34, but reproductively much older if that makes sense? I can’t actually remember my numbers etc now but the consultant was surprised by my shitty eggs (even after acupuncture, vitamins, wheatgrass etc!)

Are you having private treatment? Are you happy with your clinic?

Best of luck windy! All we can do is be positive.

Sorry to hear that potters. With me its obviously quality of my eggs. I don't seem to have an issue with quantity Yes, private treatment as my local NHS trust don't fund those with previous children (my partner already has 2). I'm not happy at all with the level of care provided by the clinic. I felt like I was just on a production line. I saw someone different nearly every visit and it isn't exactly a large clinic! Where are you based? Just trying to source a new clinic.

We were the same, had to fund our own but because we didn’t know what we were doing we went to the nhs hospital where we had our tests.

The experience was pretty poor, but I can’t judge if they were clinically good and their people skills were off? It was cheaper (relatively!) than other clinics.

We’re in Yorkshire and we were going to have the second round with Care as they had good reports and stats, but I was put off by the distance to travel for scans etc. Also I was warned that sometimes the private clinics massage their figures by cherry picking their patients who are likely to have more success. However I have no idea if that’s true.

I also read that there is increased chance of it working with each round up to about 4 I think. Because each round is an experiment and they can tweak meds etc.

It is really tough. No one really understands it til you go through it. Hope you’re ok

Also I wouldn’t assume you have any probs with quality yet. Sometimes they need to tweak your trigger shots etc.

Also on my successful round they swapped pessary progesterone for IM. Apparently there’s stats about that being significantly better in some cases.

My GP has been amazing. I managed to get all the STI/rubella etc screening done for free via my surgery (the clinic were going to charge over £500). I did go for a consultation with the NHS (as they are significantly cheaper than private clinics). The doctor was really abrupt with me and informed me I would only be waiting 6 weeks as I am self-funded. When I tried to book the appointment I was told it was a 6 week wait for a group information session and then it would be a further 2-3 months before I got to see a consultant. I just haven't got that time to wait.

I was looking at Care in the Midlands but their clinic here is reasonably new so no/few reviews and no success rates available as yet.

My meds were only upped slightly 7 days in just to give the follies a bit of a boost. Perhaps I need more stims from the start due to age? I had two Ovitrelle triggers. I thought that was a bit excessive as others only seem to have had one. What is IM?

Yes, agreed its very tough. My brother had another child at christmas which has made things even tougher for me.

I think a freeze all is something you could look into and ask your consultant about. I understand it is quite popular abroad. It does depend on how well the blasts develop but one good thing is it gives you some time to recover from the stims etc and then you can do FETs quite close together. So say you had 3 embryos suitable for freezing, you would be able to have 3 FETs in the space of say, 6-9 months, giving you a lot more chances at transfer per ICSI cycle. It really does depend on your blasts though as they have to be a certain quality to freeze.

We froze 4 day 5 blasts and I've had two transferred so far, incredibly both resulted in positive pregnancies and I'm expecting DC number 2. I was once in a hopeless place and I am a success story so there are a few of us. Really, really hope one day you will be too.

IM is intramuscular I think, so injections of progesterone into your bottom. I had pessaries for both my rounds but my friend who had a much harder time (6 rounds and eventually some sort of wizardry at a Greek clinic) did the IM progesterone on her successful round. She was also in her 40s and from memory her successful embryo was a day 3.

Sorry IM is intramuscular progesterone. Massive needle into the bum muscle, oddly not as bad as it sounds.

I found it really tough weighing up consultations with diff clinics, researching different protocols etc vs just getting on with it to get the next cycle in ASAP with the same clinic.

That is hard about your brother. I found it really difficult to celebrate other people’s successes even tho they had no bearing on my infertility, and then felt awful about that. Even now I’m envious of the ease at which others get pregnant and I don’t even want any more. Totally messes with your head. Be kind to yourself x

Okay re freeze all. Unfortunately there was only 1 viable embryo from the first round. I don't think the other 3 were worthy of freezing as arrested on day 6. It seems the quality of my eggs is bad then? Congratulations on DC2 GransGloves! I hope all progresses well. Which Greek clinic? We are currently considering Serum Athens.

The pessaries were okay just a little messy!

I don't think I want to undergo another cycle with the clinic we were with. Lets just say they really didn't inspire much confidence.

Agreed re other pregnancies/babies potters. I adore my new nephew and my niece but it really hits home hard that I am missing something which came so easily to my brother/SIL. We are all supposed to go on a family weekend next week but I really can't face it. I'm trying to be kind but damn, this thing is horrible x