Defrosting and refreezing embryos for PGS

[Decafplease]

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone has done defrosted frozen embryos for bippsy, refrozen, and then again defrosted for FET successfully?
A bit of back story, my first IVF cycle,14 follicles, 7 mature eggs, only 2 embryos. Transfered both, failed. So i didnt even consider PGS, no point with only 2. However 2nd cycle, much better egg collection and fertization rate, got 11 embryos. But since our plan was based on last cycle results, we hadn't discussed PGS, and i did fresh transfer of 2, froze rest. Failed again. Now after 2 failed implants consultant says best option is to defrost embryos, biopsy, refreeze, and wait for results. Then defrost again the 'best' option to transfer. He says there is a risk that some might not survive this double freeze thaw cycle, and all embryos might be weakened by it. I'm terrified we might loose all or weaken them so much they wont work anymore! Has anyone done this successfully? I wish i had thought to biopsy then straight away, but i was so sure there would be only a couple of embryos surviving again! Hindsight is cruel!

Please anyone?

Hi decaf
I did this with 3 frozen embies and they all survived the first defrost but came back abnormal so didn't get used. And so I did a fresh cycle.
My consultant said they r doing it a lot more now and seeing live births. His opinion is if they are chromosmally normal they usually survive the process....but it's def something new they are doing the last yr or 2.
Good luck, these desicion making times r so stressful!

We discussed PGS with my consultant (due to my age). I thought it sounded like the right thing for me until he said PGS did not improve live birth rates. I was utterly flabbergasted as I thought PGS would tackle one of the biggest reasons for mc/implantation failure. It maybe because it's new however.

Obviously your consultant knows your medical history and if he is recommending it I would probably follow his expert advice. As much as we can comment he would be the expert who would know all the relevant facts about your case.

Good luck!

Thanks trying and fish. Its one decision after another and nothing seems clear. I'm now thinking of doing another FET, cant face loosing all the embryos its taken so long to generate in just a freeze-thaw.

It's difficult decision.
In my case I kept miscarrying and I got to the point where I couldn't take another mc so decided it was pgs 100 percent.

For me, it's exactly what I needed and my first pgs has alowed me to get out of trimester one for once. It's not right for everyone though!

Xx

We did. Had 6 embryos defrosted. 2 didn't survive the process. 2 were abnormal. one was mosaic and only one normal. We had the normal one transferred but it sadly ended in miscarriage at 8 weeks.

We were told if they didn't survive the defrost, biopsy and refreeeze they probably wouldn't make it anyway but I do think it's a lot for the embryos to go through.

We're doing a fresh cycle soon and have been advised against PGS this time by a few different miscarriage consultants (who we have been seeing for recurrent miscarriage).

It's a hard decision. It's not cheap but I think probably saved us money and heartache in the end if those 5 wouldn't have made it anyway. Who knows? Good luck.

Thanks Trying and Holly. Holly, my consultant said the same, the ones that don't survive probably wouldnt have made it. But i worry that even a healthy embryo might get stressed by repeated freeze thaw. As you said who knows. Everytime I question my docs in this process they admit that its a best guess process. If i was to do a fresh cycle again i think i will go for PGS. Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply, it has helped me mostly to not feel so alone.

Wanted to add , congrats Trying on finally getting your sucess.
Holly, sorry to hear about your miscarriage after all that! Thats just cruel. Hope ypur next cycle is successful. xx

Hi Holly, could I ask why your doctors advised against PGS testing for recurrent miscarriage? I'm really interested to hear more about that, as I'm going through a miscarriage after PGS, which my husband and I turned to after losing five previous pregnancies. I'm now wondering if we did the right thing. Thank you

i should add i also did full works of immunes this cycle alongside pgs....ive done 3 immune cycles before and all ended in mc - one being a chromosome abnormality (our only tested mc) so turned to pgs (hence i feel pgs was what i needed, despite being 28 when started ttc and now 33)

I'm only 27 weeks so not a success story yet but all my 6 mc where before 10 weeks.....

I've seen stories of ladies who did pgs and then on testing the embryo post mc the embie was abnormal.

i saw mr gorgy who FGA who explained it all really well and basically said everything has to come together for a successful pregnancy

immunes
chromsomal integrity
lining of womb
sperm

and all aspects need guidance/looking at/help for some women. wonder how anyone gets and stay preg :/

Hi Trying, big congratulations on your ongoing pregnancy. Can I ask what immune tests and medications you've had for this one? Thank you

I had everything!
Ivig
Steriods
Gcsf
Progesterone injections and suppositories
Clexane
Asprin
Hydroxycholoroquine.

All till 14 weeks but a few ivig infusions after that too. Now just in clexane. I don't have any of the congenital diagnosed immune issues - no antibodies or anything. But had high tnf and nk cells (but not that high) which is why I feel pgs was what I needed. Esp as one ivf cycle led to all abnormal blasts and one mc was def abnormal. Either way I'll never know wot exactly it was but maybe a mixture...

Sorry to hear u have had another mc
It's so hard to know wot to do and try amongst the emotional storm of it all
Hugs x

Thank you Trying and for all the info on your treatments. I hadn't heard of GCSF of hydroxycholoroquine - going to Google them now!
Hope your pregnancy is going well, such wonderful news.

I meant conventional immune diagnosis!!

Are you under Dr Shehata?

Me? I was but mc under him. I don't know if it was pgs normal or not as that was a natural pregnancy.
I was under mr gorgy at fga.

Thank you Trying

Laurelstar - The main reasons for advising against is that there is still not enough evidence that is improves live birth rates and/or time taken to have a baby.

Because I miscarried a normal embryo after PGS the extra cost, time etc there seems little point in us having PGS again and instead looking at other possible reasons for miscarriage (in my case blood thinners and high dose folic acid). No PGS was the only thing all of the consultants (Dr Muhammad Fatum (Oxford)/Mr Rai (St Mary's)/Professor Brosens (Coventry)/Ingrid Granne (John Radcliffe)) agreed upon.

I’m sorry to hear you have had a miscarriage after PGS too. It’s so cruel. Have you had any other investigations?

Thank you for letting me know Holly. I had a uterine septum, which is now gone after two operations. All other recurrent miscarriage tests plus karyotyping have come back normal, although I am heterozygous for the MTHFR gene.
At the moment we're waiting for testing to come back from the POC of the normal PGS embryo.
Good luck in your fresh cycle, when do you start?

P.S. I should also say that the PGS normal miscarriage was after the septum operations, so very unlikely to be related. So disappointing