Best ivf clinics London?

[knoxy1]

Dear all,
My partner and I have unexplained infertility and over the last 3 years I've been through 3 ICSI rounds at Homerton and haven't had success yet and I'm now trying to work out what to do and where to go next. I'm very keen to try the ARGC clinic but my partner doesn't trust them and thinks that they are using unproven techniques/treatments and is worried that the HFEA have concerns about how they practice..
guide.hfea.gov.uk/guide/ShowPDF.aspx?ID=6062&merge=1

He is currently saying he doesn't even want to have a consultation with them, I am panicking, as I had my heart set on trying them and I have 2 friends who have gone there and both have fallen pregnant after having previously given up hope. I have 3 embryos frozen at Homerton and am keen to try a different clinic with different approaches.
The reason I am attracted to the ARGC clinic is I would be keen to try immune testing and I am also really drawn to the amount of daily monitoring they offer. I understand its a big commitment and quite full-on but I feel that level of observing and adjusting could be just what I need and could even help with how much I always totally stress out when you're left alone to 'wait and see' in the 2ww.
Has anyone got any indoor facts that may help to convince my DP that they are worth a try, or any thoughts on other London clinics who offer a similar daily monitoring and immune testing. I don't really want to try Zita West.
I am also curious about chromosomal testing, does anyone know whether I could test on the embryos I have stored and if so can I still use them or is there a risk that they become destroyed from the tests.
Lots of questions sorry. We've had 5 years in total of ttc and I'm feeling exhausted and desperate (I'm now 39 and my DP is 50)
Thanks so much. Love and luck to all of you xxxxx

sparechange congratulations and thanks for the helpful message, do you know how much it all cost in total, I'm trying to work out my budget and it helps to know worst case scenario!

scoobyloobyloo that's a great result, it certainly seems that lots of people have had success there after numerous failures, why is it that the HFEA are so unhappy with them then?

Couple more questions:

1. Does anyone know of another clinic that will do the same amount of monitoring and immune tests etc as ARGC, is there anywhere else that will continue after a BFP
2. I need to double check what my previous FSH levels have been but does anyone know if there is anything that can be done to improve this, prior to my next attempt?

In terms of costs, in addition to the immune stuff I listed down there, I had to pay about £600 for the monitoring cycle - scans and blood tests at the start of my period, then a couple more up to OV

When the actual cycle got underway:
£1500 for a hysteroscopy which they will insist you have on about day 7 of stims so they know what your uterus looks like for when they do the embryo transfer (because they don't use ultrasound) and also because it acts like a scratch to help implantation
The actual scans + egg collection + transfer will be £4-5k depending on whether you need ICSI
Then the drugs and blood tests during the cycle which were about £2k for me but could be more or less depending on how much stimulation you need.
You buy all the drugs you might need in powder form at the start of the cycle, and then they buy back anything you don't use. Because they are powdered, they don't need to be kept in the fridge and are single dose, so there is no waste

So somewhere between £15-20k all in? We live in London so didn't have to factor in travel costs.

After we had the initial consultation, they gave us a cost estimate for the cycle, and it was about that so we knew from the start what the worst case would be if the immunes came back really bad - which they did - but it would obviously have been a lot less if I didn't have such a terrible immune profile!

One more point on the immunes.. The doctor said he thinks mine had got so bad because I'd had so many transfers.
His theory is that at some point, it hadn't been so bad (hence I had got pregnant twice before) but I was possibly borderline, and the NK cells had successfully attacked and destroyed an embryo.
I had then gone on to have more transfers in quick succession, which he said would have been like having booster vaccinations.
Each transfer gave the cells something else to attack, and strengthen my immune response meaning it got more and more futile with each attempt.

So even if you don't decide to go to ARGC, if you suspect you have an immune issue, please get it tested.

I kick myself SO much for listening to all the docs telling me it was 'just bad luck' and if I'd been pregnant before, I could get pregnant again so it was 'just a numbers game' and we needed to keep trying.
When what was actually happening was I making my problem worse and worse with each transfer.

As to 'why are the HFEA so unhappy with them'
No one really knows for sure, but there is definitley some disagreement with reporting their success rates as BFP per cycle (ie taking into account 2 embryos going back) vs BFP per embryo going back (which the HFEA prefer)

The HFEA also hates they do double transfers as standard and refuse to entertain the singleton pregnancy targets they've set.

And lastly, but probably most significantly for you, is the use of off-licence drugs and the 'evidence' base for them.

Dr T and the clinic are clearly unafraid to use off-licence drugs and also share a lot of info with a professor at the Franklin Rosslyn university in Chicago, where much if not most of the thinking of the mechanisms of immunity in fertility have come from.

The university has been instrumental in developing NK testing and also looking at the similarities between NK cells which affect fertility, and immune-based disease such as autoimmune disease, chrons, diabetes etc

Because of this, they started using drugs like Humira and IVIG, and they would argue to great success.

But they have no funding, time or inclination to run big studies, so consider their evidence to be patients like me who have had double-figure failures with other clinics and then get a BFP first time with them after having immune treatment.

Patients think it is wonderful, people like Prof Winston think it is an affront to science, and the HFEA has clearly sided with the latter under the veneer of 'protecting patients from being fleeced'

But as I said upthread, while one round at ARGC cost me nearly £20k, that is a lot less than 10 unsuccessful rounds cost me elsewhere, so I can't see it as bad value in the grand scheme of things

I recently had ivf at Hammersmith sadly had a miscarriage at 10 weeks. Was my first round, have one on ice but not sure if I should change clinic. Had a good consultant but hardly saw him. Paid privately but felt like a NHS experience. I don't know if a private clinic would be better as I think I can only afford one more round. Anyone been successful at Hammersmith or can recommend a good LONDON clinic for over 40s?

European clinics offer the same sort of testing but for way cheaper. I cant comment on the conparison of how they monitor but my clinic in Greece monitored me daily with blood tests and scans and changed my protocol accordingly. They would have preferred I was out there from day 1 but I couldnt go out until about day 5

hi Knoxy1, just found this thread with your question dated June 2017. which clinic did you go ahead in the end? thanks.

@AniSL

European clinics offer the same sort of testing but for way cheaper. I cant comment on the conparison of how they monitor but my clinic in Greece monitored me daily with blood tests and scans and changed my protocol accordingly. They would have preferred I was out there from day 1 but I couldnt go out until about day 5

Which do you recommend?

There is a lot of jealousy and bitterness in the medical community. Years ago Kate Silverton fronted a BBC Panorama documentary on the ARGC. The HFEA have historically had a problem with Mr Taranissi. And Dr Winston aired his view - again not complimentary. Mr T sued the BBC for libel and got substantial damages. £1,000,000 but don’t quote me on that - it’s a long time ago now.

I remember thinking at the time, watching Ms Silverton confront Mr T, I hope you never have problems conceiving and she did, years later, have her own fertility issues.
In years to come what are you going to remember? Your child conceived by the scientific miracle of ivf or your DH’s argument that the ARGC manipulates results and selects its patients.
I am a big Mr Taranissi fan. He promised me that I would get my baby and I did. And I had immune issues.
Your partner is dead set against the ARGC and yes it’s important that you both agree but it is such an agonising and awful experience why would you not choose the best clinic? They have the most amazing clinical expertise. My DH has a scientific background and said that it’s key - the care and dilligence of the team in the lab. Also the constant monitoring and daily blood tests are essential.
Good luck in whatever you choose.