anyone want to talk about dna fragmentation?!

[Zippybear]

We have high dna frag (29% then 31%) and after 2 failed natural cycles my clinic is suddenly recommending donor sperm. Have anyone else had this test done? Is it really so hopeless?! I don't know why after only 2 goes they are suddenly saying donor is better, and I don't think we are ready to go there just yet (if at all). Google is just bringing up a lot of conflicting info. Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat

Hi zippy I'm there too, when Mr Meh had his dna fragmentation test done, we were told his is 51% fragmented. After our first cycle we were told donor sperm was our best option as they struggled to find normal sperm (on the day Mr Meh had to give two samples).

Unfortunately I don't have any good news, just wanted to let you know I'm in the same boat.

Hi Meh I did think of you as I was writing the post. Hows your cycle going? We are going straight into another with our own sperm, might as well give it a go even if the odds are dire. I am a bit annoyed with our clinic, as we had the dna frag test done before we started, I don't know why they are suddenly so keen on recommending donor now after letting us do 2 cycles with our own, surely either they should have recommended that all along or not until we have 3 or 4 failures?! maybe its to do with their stats or something. I think if our next cycle fails we might consider going to see Dr Ramsey the urologist people talk about on Fertility friends. Not sure if that would be useful or not in your situation but might be worth a go. I really don't feel keen on donor sperm but I am not as against embryo adoption, have you thought about that at all? Maybe its strange that that seems a better option to me, but at least as parents we would be in the same boat. Ah maybe if it came to it I wouldnt be up for that either who knows. I think on another level I am starting to accept we may be childless. Shitty situation all round.

Hey Zippy, I agree totally a shitty situation! It is really crap that the clinic have waited a few cycles before suggesting it. Good on you for getting back on the horse so to speak! I toyed with speaking with Dr Ramsey, I'm just unsure if he could help. I'm not sure the effects of radiotherapy can be reversed. I might revisit it when this cycle fails.

I've not thought about embryo transfer, not sure how I feel about that either, definitely not against it. Some days (in my more selfish moments!) I think I can cope with donor sperm, I'm not sure about it otherwise. It is just tough.

Adoption feels more of an option but a colleague is going through the process and it just seems so long which gets me panicky as there's around 10 yrs between me and Mr Meh so it worries me if all of this takes longer.

Mr Meh is OK (well as ok as he can be) with the idea of donor sperm...it's just tough. What if he never bonds with the baby etc...

I am the same as you - there is a part of me thinking about a life without children and that hurts. Sigh

Hello,

Our IVF clinic recommended we do the DNA fragmentation test and my DH's level was 48%. It was a real shock as all other tests for him were fine. We went to see Dr Ramsey and he thinks in this case it can be lowered with some antibiotics! We are waiting for the results to see if it has worked but in the scheme of things i think it could be money early well spent. The consultation was £200 and he is a really nice man. I definitely think it is worth seeing him if only to get another opinion.

Hello ladies, we had 61% dang rag measured back in 2013, and were also advised to go to donor sperm. After antibiotic treatment with mr Ramsay we are now expecting a baby any day now - and we even have 6 more first rate embryos in the freezer. Mr R is definately worth a shot.

Thanks Teakind and FlyingCat I will definitely book an appointment.
Meh theres a bit of an age gap between me and Mr Zippy too which is a bit of a worry as this process keeps being delayed. Mr Z isnt at all keen on donor sperm, which I can understand as neither am I! He is worried he won't bond with the child, which I guess is a possiblity, and having a child seems to put a huge stress on a marriage regardless - I suddenly realised I didn't want to push him into something he wasn't comfortable with as the long term worst case scenario is we end up splitting up and I become a single parent to a donor conceived child (which is fine if you wanted to go down that road, I personally would not have). Hope your current cycle is going ok

Hi, congratulations cat! That's great news!

We got our results back this morning... down to 14%! Thank goodness our IVF clinic recommended we had the test before starting as odds are it would have failed (or I would have miscarried again)

Good luck zippy! I really think it's worth exploring. The antibiotics cost £22.80 which is peanuts compared to an IVF cycle. You DH may have a different issue but hopefully it would be something easy to fix.

Wow teakind that's amazing! Unfortunately I don't think it will be as easy for us (dh had had 2 courses of antibiotics already) good luck for your next round!

Just wanted to share my story. We never actually got the DNA fragmentation test done, but my husbands normal morphology on his sperm samples were all 0% normal, except one test which came back as only 1% normal. I chose to pay extra during our IVF cycle for 'HA sperm selection'. You can google about it online, but basically instead of just picking the sperm that looks good under the microscope but might have lots of DNA fragmentation, they do an extra step of putting the sperm in a petri dish with HA solution. The sperm that don't have DNA fragmentation are able to emit their HA receptors and stick to the solution, and the lab then selects these sperm. It mimics what happens in a woman's body during natural conception. I don't know why the clinics are not suggesting this? It got us our little boy.

IMSI or PICSI is thought to help with this. Now know 2 babies born as a result.

Mr Ramsay prescribes Doxycyclin, which is available minus the fat consultation fee from your GP.

Fertility Friends is a mine of information.

Hi ladies, I hope you don't mind if I jump in and ask how you go about getting the DNA fragmentation test done and roughly how much it costs? Do you have to go to a specific fertility clinic (we live offshore)/ can you have it done with Dr Ramsay (we have already been to see him)?

Would you also mind me asking, does low morphology indicate poor fragmentation? My DHs has varied from 4%-2% and now at the latest 0% :( with a count of just 4 million. Just wondering where to go from here now.

Thanks

P.s. Congratulations Shellset :) pleased to read you have had your baby!

Shellset? Shellster! :)

What antibiotics did you take to lower the dna fragmentation?

@Sysy91 someone further up the thread mentioned Doxycycline, but I guess it depends on the causes of the problem whether that would work for you. A quick Google suggests it won't make a big difference for most people.

There is a whole chapter in the book 'It Starts with the Egg' on improving sperm quality, may be worth a read?