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Infertility

Our Infertility Support forum is a space to connect with others in the same position, discuss causes, treatment and IVF, and share infertility stories of hope and success.

Was IVF always the road for you?

49 replies

LuckyBlackKitty · 19/03/2016 22:56

So, we've been TTC for a year now.
I'm 36 and DH is 40 and so we have started the initial exploratory tests via GP.
My question to you all is, did you always know you would go down the IVF route?
We've started talking about it and DH isn't keen. I think he is scared of having twins/triplets/etc and is daunted by the whole process.
Was there ever a time when you thought you would accept not having children or would you always go down the 'treatment' toute, whatever it took?

OP posts:
Honeybee79 · 21/03/2016 14:43

banana - really, really sorry to hear your news. That is fcking shit. Glad to hear that you have your other frosties though.

bananafish81 · 21/03/2016 16:19

Thanks ladies

MMC was only a week ago and it feels so cruel to have seen and heard a beautiful heartbeat twice, and then for my body to trick me into thinking all was well, but unbeknownst to me the baby had died.

Which is sadly neither unique to me nor anything to do with IVF. Although I think the experience of pregnancy - and pregnancy loss - is slightly different for anyone who's struggled to conceive, whether they've been through IVF or not.

17 eggs from someone who was diagnosed as being in borderline premature ovarian failure was indeed a bloody miracle. Embryologists all asked if my AMH could have been a lab error!!

So we are certainly in an incredibly lucky position to have such a strong subs bench.

And that's all thanks to science

bananafish81 · 21/03/2016 16:23

Fuck yeah science etc

Was IVF always the road for you?
Blondeshavemorefun · 21/03/2016 16:39

Banana. That must be so hard. Having the joy of pregnancy then a mc Flowers

I'm just grateful for my Frosties. Have 3 day 5 and two day 6 left

But once used all of them then that's final and if all fails then overall that's 9 attempts

Surely one must work .......

Tho as I've had 4 failures I've been told to have an era

I put up a post about it

Anyone had one?

outputgap · 21/03/2016 19:51

Sorry if you've both posted about this elsewhere, and/or it's too difficult to talk about, but banana and blondes have you had your thyroid function, blood clotting and immunes checked? (Although I am a bit agnostic about immunes.)

bananafish81 · 21/03/2016 21:56

Yes all the above. I had the level 1 immunes, thyroid, thyroid antibodies and all the thrombophilia tests before the cycle started.

My consultant will treat empirically for possible immunes issues rather than running all the level 2 Chicago tests, so we'll be adding in prednisolone, intralipids, clexane, aspirin and Gestone, as belt and braces

He doesn't find the tests reliable and won't use Humira or IVIG but will treat empirically for implantation failure or mc

Although the tissue testing will show if it was the seed or the soil, we won't leave it to chance just in case it was both

I'm also not going to put anything back until we've done a hysteroscopy and endometrial biopsy, to have a look at the uterine environment (esp to see what nick it's in post ERPC, in case of Ashermans).

At 'least' with an ERPC we can do the karotyping to actually get some answers. Hopefully.

Although regardless of what the testing shows I still want to pursue PGS

If the embryo wasn't viable then I don't want to risk another mc if possible by playing lucky dip with the untested frosties, if I can help it

If the problem wasn't the embryo but the uterine environment / something else, then even if we treat for immunes etc, if we put an untested embryo back, if it fails we still won't know if the reason was the seed or the soil

At least if we put back a PGS tested embryo and it fails it will be a clear diagnostic

Although I rather hope that by throwing the kitchen sink we may have a better outcomes

Which of course we might do if we didn't do anything and just put a frostie back and got lucky!

Lauren83 · 21/03/2016 21:58

We always knew we would have IVF but we thought we would stop at 3 cycles but my next one will be cycle 5, we also said we wouldn't pursue things if my already low reserve gave up (I was 28 and diagnosed with POF) my last 2 cycles were donor eggs...

bananafish81 · 21/03/2016 22:04

Lauren I think I know you from FF POF / low AMH boards. I hope you are doing OK - you've been the most spectacular support to the boards if you are who I think you are lovely xxx

outputgap · 21/03/2016 22:24

Well, that sounds utterly comprehensive, banana. I can see exactly why you would do PGS, esp with those vast quantities of embryos. Wishing you all the best.

bananafish81 · 21/03/2016 22:38

Thanks output Thanks

I don't think we can PGS the frosties which is a massive fucker - would have to thaw, biopsy, refreeze and then thaw for transfer. So could end up testing and finding one is perfect then knackering it in the process!!

We'll see. Might try one FET and hope it's not another mc before we throw ourselves into another fresh. Am nailing all the DHEA and gazillion egg quality supplements on the assumption that we do another fresh at some point, as the difference in embryo quantity and quality between the two cycles was ridiculous

First cycle - 6 eggs, 4 fertilised, 3 looking perfect at day 3, then all conked out and nothing made it to blast

Second cycle - 17 eggs, 12 fertilised, 7 made it to blast of which 1 was transferred (and mc) and 4 are on ice

Stims protocol was identical, only difference was I'd been on DHEA etc for 4 months by cycle 2 instead of 6 weeks for cycle 1. No idea if correlation implies causation but certainly seems plausible....

bananafish81 · 21/03/2016 22:45

(And I too am agnostic about immunes - especially clinics that bully patients into taking cytotoxic drugs saying 'don't blame us if you miscarry because you don't take Humira'. Ahem)

Lauren83 · 21/03/2016 23:33

Yes it's me banana how did you know? Small world!

Lauren83 · 21/03/2016 23:43

This is how my cycles have gone...
Been trying since 2007 on and off, had a natural pregnancy with previous partner in 2003 but MMC at 9 weeks

2013
Stage 4 endo, low AMH, Tubal issues/hydro, endometriomas (inc an 18cm one) Shock 2 laps and a course of Prostap to get ready for IVF

2013
Own egg icsi
4 eggs
All mature
All fert
2 back
BFN

2013
Own egg cancelled due to FSH jumping to 23, diagnosed POF and moved clinics to try donor eggs

2014
Donor egg icsi
Scratch
Glue
4 eggs
2 fertilised (1 abnormally)
1 back - terrible grade
BFN

2015
Donor egg icsi
Scratch
Glue
Gestone
Clexane
Pred
Embryscope
11 eggs
5 mature
4 fert
2 back
Bfp with twins due Xmas eve but MMC at 8.5 weeks

2015
RMC tests all clear
Chicagos show high NK so adding intralipids next time and baby aspirin as well as the above

Did have a fet booked in Nov but cancelled it

Lauren83 · 21/03/2016 23:47

Also just seen about your MC I'm so so sorry, it's especially cruel after having a scan and seeing a HB, you let yourself relax a bit don't you xx

bananafish81 · 22/03/2016 00:24

Lauren Well your story sounded very familiar and I thought I remembered your username in your instagram link in your sig on FF, even though your username is ever so slightly different

I remember all the amazing support you have given to FF members since I have been on the forum, you really have touched so many people - I am one of them!

I'm on the cycling with low AMH/high FSH boards quite a bit, and also a few threads on the POF board. Have learned so, so much from FF. I'm the same username on FF so I'm pretty easy to find Smile

Lauren83 · 22/03/2016 06:56

Banana that's so kind of you to say Thankyou! Smile I agree I learnt 90% from FF and 10% from my clinic! What's your next move now then with treatment? I'm having a break before cycle #5, it's actually a year next week since my last donor cycle worked, strangely I'm going working in an IVF clinic so change of careers I wasn't expecting

Blondeshavemorefun · 22/03/2016 09:14

I was told to take dhea and had more eggs 2nd time round and 3 fertilized tho sadly didn't implant

Def think it helps

notagiraffe · 22/03/2016 09:22

My DH was very reluctant too. But for me it was a deal breaker. I am not sure our marriage would have survived if we hadn't had children, which would have been a shame because we have (I think) a very strong and happy marriage. We knew when we married we'd need IVF treatment and we both knew we wanted children.

The likelihood of triplets is tiny. these days you have to give a strong case for having more than one embryo implanted. And you know, having twins is a blessing for anyone who does IVF. One round of drugs and expenses=two babies. best outcome ever. (Yes it is hard for the first year or two, especially if they are ill, as twins can often be premature.) But from pre school age onwards I genuinely think having twins is far easier than having single babies. My life is so much simpler than my friends'. No arguments about what to do or where to go. Talk to your husband. Without doubt the very best thing I ever did in life was persuade my husband to give IVF one last chance. Fifth time lucky was twins. It has been without any doubt the most wonderful, joyful thing that ever has or could happen to me and to us. I adore having children. They are the greatest source of love and happiness and laughter and excitement. And I lived a far more apparently 'exciting', glamorous life before they were born. Nothing compares to them. Talk to your husband. Discuss your future and listen to his fears, but don't let his reticence undermine your desire or need to try for a family.

LuckyBlackKitty · 22/03/2016 19:09

Thanks for sharing your story giraffe. That's reassuring! X

OP posts:
tallamou · 23/03/2016 15:48

Dear LuckyBlackKitty,

I had 3 rounds of IVF in my 40's.
My partner had 2 older children and a certain amount of ambivalence around increasing his brood by any means.
Arriving at the point of undertaking IVF treatment was definitely a process for both of us.

I thought deeply about whether of not I would be happy childless and what paths I was willing or determined to pursue. I was uncertain what I thought about assissted conception, was it 'natural' enough? what were the ethical considerations etc etc etc..The conclusion I came to was that I was at a crossroads in my life: the path of parenthood or the path of freedom lay before me and that each had value. If I couldn't have children, then so be it...but I was going to give parenthood the best chance I possibly could. Once I had that piece of the puzzle in place, IVF was an obvious and acceptable option, bearing in mind my age and hormone levels.

The experience of IVF treatment is a whole different thing...There's the financial cost, unless you're eligible for NHS funding..but either way, that's something that can be accounted for in advance..what you can't know until you have it, is the physical and emotional cost, which is different for everyone. I have to say, i had an easy ride of it in terms of the hormone treatment, although I'm needle phobic and found myself becoming more, not less resistant to the daily injections as the journey progressed. The emotional cost was much higher, I found it to be an emotional roller-coaster. During the 1st and 2nd cycles, i was absolutely certain that I'd repeat the process if it failed. On the 3rd, I was very uncertain and had pretty much decided that I would call it a day if unsuccessful. Again I imagine that everyone has their own unique journey in that respect.

Good luck with the investigations...whatever treatment you and your partner decide on and whatever the medical or unspecified reasons for your failure to conceive thus far, there are things you can do to support and help yourself. There is a small but growing body of medical research into the efficacy of mind-body medicine on fertility (check out Dr Alice Domar for example).. I found guided visualisations extremely useful for quelling stress and anxiety, for communicating with my body to explain what was happening to it and what was expected of it, and for reconnecting with my own sense of fertility, above and beyond the ability to conceive.
A wonderful hypnotherapist called Sjanie Hugo has developed a programme called Fertile Body, fertile Mind, and Im pretty sure you can download mp3's of some excellent self-hypnosis scripts from the website...I used to listen to such meditations on endless loop while I slept.

These and similar techniques may or may not have an effect on treatment outcomes..but they certainly make the experience a more positive one and allow you to participate in creating a fertile inner space.

Gosh...I realise Ive written a huge tome...Sorry..im quite passionate about the subject!
love Tallamou

bananafish81 · 23/03/2016 17:52

Lauren wow, that’s amazing that you’re going to be working in an IVF clinic - they’re lucky to have you as part of the team. Nice one!

Not sure what next step is re: treatment. Seeing the Dr for following post MMC/ERPC in 3 weeks, not sure when we can cycle again but keen to get back in the saddle as soon as possible

We have 4 frosties but am minded to try another fresh cycle to enable us to do PGS. That would have to be freeze all while PGS results come back, so even though my uterus might not be quite ready for business so soon, my ovaries have been rested since Jan, so would be great if we could start a stims cycle sooner rather than later

Will see. Don’t want to put anything back until we’ve done a hysteroscopy in any case

Hope you’re having a good break from the tx hamster wheel Flowers

Can massively echo tallamou about hypnotherapy and relaxation. I loved an aussie one called ‘Be Fertile’, and a US one by Anji Inc. Found the visualisation great, imagining my ovaries ripe with follicles like lush bunches of plump juicy grapes!

LuckyBlackKitty · 25/03/2016 09:45

Thanks Tallamou and everyone else who has commented.
It has been insightful reading about your journeys and experiences.
I guess there's no simple answer. I think I need to just take each day, month, test and result as it comes.
Thanks again everyone X

OP posts:
ItsLikeRainOnYourWeddingDay · 25/03/2016 09:51

You need to have a serious talk now about how far you are willing to go to have a child.

Even counselling might help - most hospitals can point you into the direction of infertility counselling.

If your dh is reluctant now you must get to the bottom of it. The risks of multiples isn't a risk, it shows how little research he has done if he believes this is a real risk. At your age you may be encouraged to implant two embryos but you don't have too. I only ever implanted one.

DH and I both agreed we would try ivf. After the first round which left me very ill and suffering a mc I needed persuading to do it again as I didn't think I could manage it emotionally or physically again. I did and we had a baby.

BipBippadotta · 29/03/2016 14:57

A bit late to the party here but just chiming in to say that I'd never wanted to do IVF and was fairly horrified by the prospect of it. DH and I had promised ourselves we'd draw the line way before IVF. We'd always said we'd accept that it wasn't meant to be, and bow out gracefully. But that was before we'd had a full-term stillbirth & a couple more miscarriages.

Eventually, as I got towards the end of my 30s, we grudgingly decided we would try IVF. When the time came for my first appointment, I found I was pregnant naturally. Hurrah! Then I had another miscarriage at 9 weeks. Made another appointment to start IVF 6 weeks later. Bottled it - just couldn't do it, it made me too sad and frightened. The following month I forced myself to go through with it - and what do you know, it resulted in another miscarriage. We will probably not do it again, just because I can't take any more loss and I am not convinced it can help with our situation.

I think if your fertility problem is mechanical or hormonal (sperm not getting to egg for whatever reason / ovulation problems or egg maturity) IVF is very good at overcoming those issues and more likely to be successful. Less so if your trouble is 'unexplained', or due to poor quality sperm or eggs (which is likely the case for us) - that's when it becomes much more of a numbers game - trying to get as many eggs fertilised as possible in the hope there are a couple of good ones left. This often means several more cycles than you might have if your problem is, say, blocked tubes or low sperm count.

As others have said, physically it's not so bad. It's the emotional side that is the hardest (and knowing you're paying so much money for so much heartache). For me, after so many losses, I couldn't bear the sense of failure and disappointment at every step of the process: not responding well enough to the stims, an unexpectedly terrible fertilisation rate, not having enough embryos to do genetic testing, etc. It felt like every other day I was told of some novel way in which things were going badly.

Something I didn't initially realise about IVF is that you need to be prepared to do multiple cycles. I had a consultation at one clinic who said I had a 56% chance of success - I queried this, as other places had said my chances were much lower. They clarified they meant a 56% chance over 3 cycles. It's just what they assume you are going to commit to at the outset, as the first cycle is often experimental - where they discover where your particular problems are and how you respond to the drugs.

It sounds as though it's mainly your DH who is unhappy with the idea of it. The risk of twins/multiples was initially a worry for my DH, but it's by far the least likely outcome of a cycle IVF (when I had treatment age 38 we were told we had an 8% chance of twins from our 2 embryos - a 12% chance of a singleton, and an 80% chance of nothing.). At 36 you'd have to push for them to put back more than 1 embryo anyway - I think these days they won't put 2 back in until you're 37 (but I could be wrong).

My sense from talking to others who have done IVF and feel happier about it than I do is that it's not so bad if you're OK with multiple cycles, and you know the risks, and feel confident that it gives you the best chance of having a baby - and you're feeling fairly robust in general.

Good luck.

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