Getting pregnant naturally with low amh

Hello luci :)

What the estrogen priming involved:
For me, I personally took 2mg estrogen in the AM and 2mg in the PM (Progynova was the brand prescribed to me here in Australia) from day 20 of my cycle. The study says to take it from day 21 which in a textbook cycle would be mid luteal phase, but as my cycles were short at 25-26 days, I thought day 20 was closer to my mid luteal phase. This is the study that wowed me and convinced me to try it, showing it resulted in an increased number of oocytes (eggs) retrieved, an increased number of normally fertilised embryos and an increased number of good quality embryos.

Difference I found:
For my first IVF, they put me on their standard 200 units of Puregon starting day 2 of my cycle. At each scan, there were less follicles and I ended up with 2 mature follicles and a smaller one that was probably not going to contain a mature egg. They only ended up retrieving one egg because Dr forgot one ovary!! Negligence!!

I then read about estrogen priming and went to my Dr telling him I wanted to try it. He had never heard of it and insisted I take the pill to shut down my ovaries so that next time my follicles would grow at a more similar rate. I had read the pill is bad for poor responders like me and really wanted to do EPP but he said 'the pill is the same thing as it contains estrogen anyway. I took the pill for a month before I started Puregon again - this time 450 units. I can't remember the exact follicle numbers and sizes, but it was a pretty similar result with one or two in the lead and the rest dying away at each scan. I then cancelled this cycle.

I talk to the Dr on the phone and insist on EPP. He agrees. I go to the clinic for my appointment and he casually says 'oh, the pill doesn't really work anyway' (then why the @#&* did you waste my money and emotions putting me through it?!?!) and that I should take a nasal spray that would properly shut down my ovaries. I was fed up and insisted on EPP. He wasn't convinced but let me try. I produced 5 eggs that cycle! Sounds pathetic to the average woman, but I was impressed since I started with only 8 follicles on day 2 and the previous cycles had resulted in one or two mature follicles and had my first transfer of 2 x day two embryos.

I still got a BFN that cycle but after the incompetence of the Dr and seeing the reason why the clinic was cheaper, I moved on to a more expensive clinic where they had better culture medium (I think) which is why they could culture embryos to day 5 instead of just day 2 and they used ultrasound to place the embryos in the exact spot instead of the nervous trainee with no ultrasound at the cheaper clinic.

Everhopeful, if it's any reassurance, I found the lead up to IVF worse than the actual IVF itself. During this lead up period, all you can do is wait and worry and send yourself insane with research. I too am a bit of a controller and wasn't good at accepting that I couldn't have what I want (hence the 11 IVF cycles!) so you sound like me. Yes, that's right - I didn't notice any hormonal reactions to the drugs, and after being on ly 200 units for the first cycle, all future cycles were on 450 units. The estrogen priming wasn't offered to me either. I just insisted on it. A lady I met online from the US had it done as standard practice at her clinic, but neither Dr at my first and second clinic had heard of it here. The second Dr was great and allowed me to do what I wanted in my cycles and she would just make suggestions rather than enforcing her way upon me.

Hi Shell, hope all is well with you. Thanks for the info. So you started the estrogen in the cycle before stimms? Did you continue it when you started stimming?

Yes, I took the estrogen from day 20 the cycle prior to the IVF cycle. I continued the estrogen until day 3 of my IVF cycle, exactly as per the study in that link I provided.

From my understanding, normally in the later part of your cycle, your body has realised pregnancy has not taken place so the corpus luteum starts to die away and the follicles for the next cycle begin to appear, with your body starting to select the strongest ones. When you take estrogen from your mid luteal phase, your body is tricked into thinking there is a follicle growing (since growing follicles are what produce estrogen) so it stops this process from happening and the antral/baby follicles for the next cycle stay at the same size instead of your body starting to select the strongest few. So when you start the stims the following cycle, they grow at a more similar rate, having started at a more similar size.

that is very reassuring Shell thank you. I am doing IVF as a one off at this stage and see where it takes me and any ongoing decisions for further cycles is going to be dependent on how taxing this first one is going to be. Or I ll do donor embryos, which I think overall would be easier.

I can be more emotional on my "real hormones" as opposed to fake hormones I ve found. When I ve taken the pill in the past, didn't have any problems whatsoever. So this is everhopeful feeling hopeful about that.

Did you have the full GA or strong sedation for ECs? I don't seem to hold any fears of injecting, its just the downgrading, being put in temp menopause is the worry incase it becomes permanent.
I think the 450 dosage has been bandied around for me, r u saying you didn't notice any difference between the higher dose of drugs also? I am going to ask about what FC knows about oestrogen priming and research more.

I am going to try and think of the actual process as being a medical one, rather than emotional. What they can do these days is nothing short of incredible but when you re the emotional guinea pig, you just want it to work.

Latest fun is the DHEA tablets are still giving off SE's but as one of them seems to be rapid weight loss (like 5lbs/2kgs ish) in less than one week am kind of perservering.... but felt like hell today.

Also on another thread someone has been advised to go on the pill to break down a cyst. Am going to ask FC if it would make a difference to do this for 2 months from next week when I see her, me thinks it will be a non starter because of my amh level going down etc on a month by month basis but cant hurt asking. I actually have a months worth of cezarette because Gynae had prescribed it to get my cycles more together to aid endo.

Wow.... there is no end to this process - an answer to one thing opens up so many further questions

now read back and saw you took the pill before a new IVF cycle and it wasn't recommended for poor responders. Although I have no proof yet that I will be poor responder. However it might help the cyst disintegration but not the overall IVF process. Oh god its a minefield

Yes, I had full general anesthetic for all 7 of my egg collections. And yep, I didn't notice any difference between the 200 and 450 dosage. Never got any side effects from the meds - although I personally didn't get any side effects from the DHEA either so perhaps my body is different to yours. Or perhaps I was just so emotional and desperate about the next IVF cycle working that I couldn't tell the difference between the drug side effects and the natural emotional side effects I was suffering from failure after failure that I had before I even started the drugs!

Sorry to hear your still getting side effects from the DHEA, or should we put a positive spin on this and say that it definitely has to be having an effect on your ovaries then? Will she do another scan at your appointment next week?

I too have read of people going on the pill to shut down their ovaries and get rid of cysts, although just to make the decision more difficult, I have also DEFINITELY read that it is not good for poor responders, and I definitely found that experience to be true in my case. That's why I though something like Angus Castus would definitely be best for you as an alternative. I found that as I went along with all my IVF cycles, my periods got out of whack and I responded poorer to the meds - a blood test would physically show that my levels were not as high after the Pregnyl as it was previously. I honestly think it is best to try to have your body in optimal condition fertility wise (and emotional wise, but that seems near impossible) and avoid the pill prior to IVF. I don't know what cezarette is but I feel nervous for you considering playing with so many hormone altering drugs prior to IVF. Your eggs are being exposed to your circulation 3 months prior to the IVF cycles and they need the normal hormones with the waxing and weaning of estrogen and progesterone in a cycle to be top quality, not altering your cycles with a concoction of prescription medications. That is why I recommended the Angust Castus as it is a natural herb that will balance your own hormones and if it does anything like it did for my cousin and me, it will make your cycles regular so that you have natural ovulation and no cysts when you start IVF - without taking a concoction of medications.

But I would hate to recommend this and then you go for your scan and your cysts have not gone and you absolutely hate me, wishing you had of tried the pill. So I guess you need to decide what you are comfortable with. I guess it's good you are doing your research now. You need to come up with a list of questions that you want to ask your Dr. Then get her advice and trust her opinion, so you can hopefully feel more clarity after the appointment instead of all the questions and decisions you have rolling around in your head now.

Yes I don't know if this is psychological but I am getting gripey ovaries so am hoping this is what the dhea means. Its not too bad, at least am not getting the facial hair more attributable to some PCOS sufferers. No idea yet if its going to impact on my periods and am now back on the Agnus Castas. Wont get another scan next week, it will just be me and my long list of questions about what type of IVF using, pros and cons of it all and I also want to know how this donor embryo thing works in practice.

There is no way I would hate you whatsoever. I think as you say if it was the drug side versus the general emotional side, I am suffering a lot now with it all, I cant imagine it getting any worse, but I have to be prepared it might and then try and go robot mode.

I love GA's - must be bloody mad. have often found people report that as being the best bit of the IVF, shut the ol brain down for a wee while
Oh and Cezarette is a type of mini pill which is particularly recommended for endo and out of whack cycles, but I was dithering about the drug as soon as I got it because I knew I wanted a baby.
This whole process to decide who is doing the treatment has taken a good few months, I could have quite easily have been on the pill so I think am glad I haven't taken it thus far. I ll see what the Consultant thinks

Cheers

Oh, okay, Cezarette is a type of mini pill. Thanks. Yes, too many questions. The pill is good for shutting down cysts and according to your gyno, good for shutting down endo, but on the contrary, shuts down your whole fertility system and bad for then trying to suddenly re-ramp your body up with IVF drugs during your IVF cycle for us ladies with only a few follicles. Which advise to take?!?! Makes sense to find an alternative method and I really hope the Angus Castus helps.

I must be mad too as I too looked forward to going into the hospital and being put to sleep instead of the nervousness I felt in the lead up to it! Of course, next thing I knew I was awake again and then disappointed with how few eggs were retrieved, followed by very long and anxious days while I waited for a phone call with my embryo/s progress!

Glad you've got a follow up appointment in the interim instead of having to wait until January when your IVF cycle actually starts. I hope you walk away from the appointment with your questions answered and feeling more confident you are doing the right thing with your supplements and IVF protocol.

Thanks Shellster
I ' ll let you know how it goes, going to try and simmer down now, knowing I am doing all I can to support my goal. Next one is hoping for a more regular cycle, the signs are good so far, no pmt, but possibly my agnus castas has taken immediate effect.
I am fully aware at the present moment I only have a definite 3 follicles, the chances are slim, but its a better chance than a miracle. I just need to believe believe believe!
I do very much appreciate your support, I can understand that you do feel an affinity of chatting with people in the infertility camp as you were in the same boat for so long.
I have been thinking lately that I would like to train to do fertility counselling (definitely if I am successful with this treatment, but perhaps even if am not). I have had anxiety before with other issues but this longing for a baby against v difficult odds of success, has without doubt been the worst thing I have ever had to deal with. I decided to see a counsellor that my FC recommended, but these boards really help no end. Specifically and even when the issue in question maybe has no bearing on me at all. its a unique struggle.

I too had considered doing a nursing course once this baby is older so that I could become an IVF nurse.

I know two IVF patients here in Aus who went on to form an IVF support group and they hold the gatherings every 8 weeks at the actual IVF clinic, so I suppose they didn't even do a counselling course, as it was more just a support group. But then, I suppose that is what others going through IVF would like most of all - to chat to someone who truly understands. So I am sure there would be a need for someone like you who has actually been through it, whether you do a counselling course, or just initiate a support group that doesn't require a qualification.

But first things first - you're own journey! Simmering down sounds like a good idea. Sorry, I am probably not helping in that department because I was always like you, being practical and pro active, researching everything relevant to my situation and even now that I chat to others, I tend to go into this mode on their behalf. But I swear by some of the practical things I did that were a result of my own research and that my fertility Dr's were not familiar with, so I'm sure the research does help, even if it caused a lot of stress along the way!

But now you've done your research and have chosen which supplements to take, I'll try and stop with all my research quotes :)

I am really interested also in doing something which looks at women with difficult fertility issues holistically and prepares them for a pregnancy. Kind of counselling 1-1 support element but looking at wider things also, nutrition, relaxation/anxiety mgt/wellbeing, positive mindset etc, support/discussion groups. There is a company set up like this and it could be something I d like to b a part of or could set something up similar. I am an occupational therapist so feel that I already have some transferable skills to make this work.

The problem I have is that nearly all my friends have kids, and things that were quoted at the fertility show were "30% (perhaps not exact figure) born after 1975 will never have children, and 22% of your friends will not have children" Im like...WHO are these people!? They don't exist in my world. There is Jody (Gateway) work/ website, think she s based in the States by not sure, about building a life without children, which I think is great because infertility is very isolating, and there will be people out there who are very protective of their lives, whereby they are saying it doesn't matter but will mask their true feelings. Cant say am in the place where I can even look at this right now, but have read some of the testimonials and stories from folk, which are inspiring.

But yeah your right first things first
Don't worry about banding around research figures lovely. At acupuncture yesterday, she felt I had "damp, candida" floating around my gut, so recommended another supplement. She felt that the absorption of the supplements and even what am eating would not be sufficient without that being addressed. She is really good.

Glad you are happy with your acupuncturist - I'm sure you pay enough for the service. Being the facts and figures person I am, I never quite believed when I would read about acupuncture for IVF and that they can check if you have a 'cold uterus' or in your case, can 'feel damp candida floating around'. But when my online IVF penpal talked me into going, I went to one that was also a doctor. The first time I saw her, she quoted me some facts and figures about IVF which was much more up my alley than if she told me wish wash about having a cold or damp this or that. So that sold me and I stuck to her. I guess it just depends what sort of personality you are as to who suits you best.

Yes, where are these women with no children?!?! They don't exist in my world either. And while I read the statistics that 1 in 8 couples with struggle trying to conceive, I can't find them in my world either. Everyone seems to fall pregnant at the drop of a hat. So you are right, infertility is a very isolating process - or at least that was my experience.

Occupational therapy does sound like you already have some skills transferrable to the world of treating infertility on a holistic basis. You sound like a very motivated person, wanting to set something like that up. I would love to do something like that too - something that I am actually passionate about and care about rather than just a job, but I think I would need a partner as it would feel to daunting by myself. Pity you live in the UK!

Apparently 1 in 6 couples in the UK, wonder why that's different? More fertile cos the sun is shining. Who knows.
I think setting something like that up will be totally dependent on how things pan out. I am trying not to plan too far ahead, but can dream. I worked until fairly recently in mental health, that's where most of my training is. Am sure infertility is going to get even more prevalent with poor nutrition and people working all hours to fund a chosen lifestyle. So definitely links in with OT. Am sure I belong in a different time and space, I ve struggled with advances in technology and although discussion boards like this are excellent and help with infertility isolation, we are not meeting people face to face due to either lack of time or convenience. This worries me for any child I have. I worry for the 20 somethings also who have had to take zero hour or temporary contracts which then limits their independence and what property they could afford.
I think I will get this supplement required because its worried me sufficiently to think that things aren't getting absorbed. Will take it for a month and then go onto a probiotic.
Have a great weekend

Yes, if the supplement is going to put your mind at ease, then that is already one plus for it. And perhaps she's right about the candida - if its just a natural supplement it at least sounds like it won't do any harm.

Hope you have a lovely weekend here too. It's Saturday here and I going to spend the day cleaning. Not very exciting! We are having Christmas at our house this year so I need to get out in the garden and clean up to make the place look nice. My past few Christmases were a reminder of another year having gone by with more failed IVF's under my belt and another birthday passed to make me feel older and like my baby dream was slipping away. So this one will have a new symbolism about it, making me extra grateful that I am not experiencing that this year.

Yeah Im glad you don't have to cope with that again. It will be a happy Christmas. Are you having any issues with the pregnancy, or is it pretty smooth sailing?
I decided to do volunteer work for the homeless on xmas day and boxing day. Going down to London for that. Am really hoping its my last xmas childless. Even if am pregnant or am fostering by next xmas, will be a much better outcome.
Still Fri evening here. Speak soon

That's a lovely thing to do... much better than what I did previous years - going to hubby's family and feeling very resentful towards those in his family that didn't work and were reproducing which I was having to pay tax to raise instead of being able to put that money towards my own child. The pregnancy is pretty smooth sailing thank you. But I am spending the time dreading labor! Not that I can complain to you, who can only be in the position of having to worry about labor.

Mate - labour will be an absolute breeze after this long wait for yr miracle baby. I am fine about you complaining though, most ppl would be worried about labour, and they haven't had to go through what you have.

And yes family members and friends who have fallen pregnant by accident or don't consider that their ramblings might hurt those ppl who are struggling to conceive..don't you just love all that!! I have a friend who is suffering quite bad post natal depression, and she has an absolutely adorable baby girl who is easy - doesn't cry, is in a very settled routine. She knows that she shouldn't feel the way she does, but some things cant be explained, and depression is depression. Hormones are hormones. Ahhhh

You sound like a lovely person to be able to empathise with your friend who is suffering post natal depression when you are just dreaming to be in her position.

Yes, when I was struggling, I told myself that nothing about the physical pain of labor could compare to the emotional pain of what I was going through. How quickly we forget and now I am dreading labor! I was looking into hypnotherapy classes but they are so expensive and I really need to pay off my IVF debt before I stop work so I really can't afford it. I will see what I can find for free online.

Your next appointment must be coming up soon?

haha I hope I wont be in a post natal depression type situation, but it would be a crystal ball gaze there all round. With baby and how I ll be after.
Appointment is on Thursday, eek. My current line of thought is just go with it in January and I ll take my chances. Want to find out more re the donor embryo. Am even thinking it cant hurt to go on a waiting list for that now as I don't know how long it will take.
I am getting quite sick of taking so many supplements because I have found I am eating less and just don't know how well any of them are being absorbed. I also found out that my thyroid blood test has to be re-done because they measured T3 and not T4 so there was no direct comparison from my last test. Still I guess I cant complain because I haven't had to pay for any of these tests.
Its causing a ripple effect as to what work I can do around that time and have had a major panic over getting an application in today, so been rather frenzied.
Hypnobirthing classes are the done thing here as well these days. I wonder if there s some app you can buy for the phone that would do the same job, at the end of the day it is just deep relaxation

Your plan sounds like a good one - follow Dr's advice and go with it in January, but no harm to get info or have your name on the donor waiting list as a plan B so you don't have so much pressure on yourself for January. I guess it's good you found out now that T3 and T4 need to be repeated - better than finding out later and it delays your treatment. Yes, hard to know what the supplements are doing, if anything. I ended up on so many and who knows if the expensive CoQ10 or anything else really helped, but once I started, I was too scared to stop in case they were helping. At least the Vitex is one supplement that you can measure the results with by having a more regular cycle - any success there so far?

Good idea about looking online for hypnobirthing help that won't cost the earth. I am also going to a breast feeding group today and will ask the others there if any classes are reputable and worth the expense.

Hi Shell,
Not been a very good experience with the FC this time, sadly. An awful lot of false hope and changing of goalposts.
The plus outside of this process seems to be that my cycle hasn't come early - so far marginally late but pmt symptoms still present. I ve only taken the Agnas Castas properly for about 2.5 weeks so not sure I d see results so quickly and it may just be a coincidence. I think the main reason am verging on late is the stress of this appt yesterday as well as a fertility counselling session on same day. I had acupuncture on Wed to try and trigger the period and it suddenly made me have cramps and thought it was imminent but nothing yet. So on day 28 now which is fine just as long as it comes on v soon.

I ve come out of the appt feeling like I might just plug for a double donor baby (ie source egg and sperm donor) The donor embryo donation suggestion from previous appt transpired that it was 2 handpicked clinics (by FC) in Spain and Greece which is a recipricol arrangement where you have some of the treatment in the UK but the transfer over there.. Of course this means being southern spain that the baby's colouring would likely be very different from mine and the whole ethics around any baby not knowing their genetic history as all donors are anonymous over there. The counsellor chipped in with this little gem, when I just wanted to understand what it all meant, not that I wanted to start analysing it, as I d barely processed the info.

The pluses are their success rates and costs being considerably lower than here. That was a bit of a head in the same way as the suggestion was made before, but no further details. Tried to explain that I needed this as a back up plan, well prior to knowing the situation, and was getting told, concentrate on your own eggs. Also didn't realise that my odds of conceiving were only 12-15% if they had fertilised to embryos. I thought that my odds stepped up significantly if they got that far. So it just feels a bit hopeless at the moment. Did you ever get given any statistics around your chances with your IVF with your AMH? I also just noticed another thread that popped up from this time last year which you were chatting on, saying that sometimes you started with a low number of follicles and then many more upon EC? I ve been told it would highly unlikely to get any more than 3.

She offered me a scan mid Dec but I thought what on earth is the point as it had only been done in early Nov. The clinics shut for 2 weeks over xmas/early Jan so my scan would be in mid Jan, assess the situation and then make the decision to proceed to downgrading shortly afterwards.
I think the heartbreak is on the constant waiting. I feel like I ve talked about this for months and am so sick of the inaction.

The last 2 days I ve had really slack days on diet, just needed breathing space from extreme emotion, because as fast as was saying I ve lost 3 stone (since end Jun) she was saying you need to lose more. She had a copy of the GP blood results and said my results for Vit D and iron were too low and needed to be at therapeutic level, not just adequate in a GP world. I had heavy dose of vit d prescribed last year and am now been told I can get a high dose tablet at pharmacy, which is complete crap.

Its so hard, the waiting.... I think I d need to research other clinics for waiting for an egg donor and need to understand the embryo donation situation in this country and being put on a list here as obviously would be able to get genetic information, however I think this is rare.

sorry for the essay, I know the feelings will being to ease, and I ll be off on the search again, but ffs!! I always come out with more questions, and the amount of bloody forms...crazy

You are welcome to write an essay here any time you need. I always enjoyed the smaller threads on Mumsnet because comments just seem to get overlooked on the larger ones. But here it seems to just be you and me, so do all the venting you need.

So it seems this appointment has left you feeling like all hope is lost with your own eggs, if you have come away feeling like you might plug for a double donor baby, and considering the whole pros and cons of international versus in your own country.

Did I ever get any statistics of my chances based on my AMH? Well, the nurse I was assigned did at the beginning show me a graph of women in different age groups, showing younger women having higher success and low miscarriage rates. Then as the age went up on the graph, the success rates went down significantly and the miscarriage rate went up. The nurse circled the statistics for the 40+ group and said because of my low AMH, I would fall into this group. I don't know if it was just me being in denial, but I truly didn't believe it. I know that as women age, more of the eggs are genetically abnormal. So it made sense to me that I was better to be 36 with an AMH of 2.5, than age 40+ with an AMH of 2.5. Even if I only made the same number of eggs as a 40+ year old during the IVF cycle, I knew that statistically more of my eggs would be genetically normal. So I just focused on quality over quantity (even though I would still get depressed when each IVF cycle showed not many follicles!). I personally got great comfort from the high protein low carb diet research, showing that women who ate more than 25% protein had a whopping 60% success rate, and that if I further decreased my carbs to below 40%, the success went up to a whopping 80%. I had read stories where women had their embryos genetically tested and they were found to be normal, but the embryo still didn't survive until transfer day - so obviously there were reasons other than genetic abnormality for the embryo dying. So I stuck to the diet and supplements to ensure that when a normal embryo did come along, it would have the energy and ability to keep dividing and implant.

But, it's all very easy for me to say now that I have my baby. I know how gut wrenching it is and how difficult some days are. After an IVF failure, I would fall off my diet big time, then feel more guilty because I would feel like I am ruining any future chances. Would you have to pay any extra for the scan in December. If it is no extra cost, then no harm to have a look and hopefully get some reassurance.

At least your cycle seems to be on track, which is one positive thing. I guess you have that as an extra hurdle than me, with your irregular cycles, history of endo and cysts. Is this the reason she has chosen the down regging method of IVF for you? Would this help to ensure no cysts for your IVF cycle?

Such a difficult time and such a lot to process. I guess it's already a difficult decision to decide to raise a child on your own, without adding fertility issues into the mix to top it off.

Feel free to rant any time you need.

xox

I am not sure why the down regging has been chosen. it just seems to be their standard protocol and then I would be on the 450 dosage stimms.
However I still seem to be processing it all still.
I could start the treatment and see how I respond, that way all is not lost and I tried, and if they cancel cycle then I would probably not try it again with this clinic.
If the statistics are so low, and this is my only shot then I am thinking should I go for the egg donor method just because I ll be back on 50% odds. I have actually thought lately that I wouldn't want a daughter for eg suffering for all the health problems I ve had.
I ve been thinking about using a private sperm donor to get their on my own. If am waiting on an egg donor (probably take 10 months) then there is no reason why I cant ttc and although odds am sure go down to a miracle again, I wont have this awful stress.
Still haven't come on and would have to pay for an extra scan. I ve discounted that because I just don't want to pay.
I am pretty sure I don't want an European donor embryo. I think I need to hunt around getting onto egg donor wait lists in this country.
I think its just raw because its a recent brain dump and I might come to an answer in the next few days, altho obviously I have to select a sperm donor and give that time before the treatment started in mid January x

Sounds like although you have lots of questions and lots running around in your head, you seem settled in your plan to give IVF with your eggs at least one attempt, but then move on to donor IVF.

I am surprised the statistics are as high as 50% for egg donor method. I remember reading that the chance of natural conception each month is only 35%, so I guess it makes sense that IVF success rates would be even lower since these couples have infertility related issues. Again, I felt relief to find the IVF protein diet study which gave much more promising statistics and stuck to that diet.

The private sperm donor plan does sound like a logical thing to do if you were waiting 10 months on a donor list anyway. England seems much more forward in the whole egg and sperm donor department. Australia does not have egg donor banks. I remember trying to look online about how to self inseminate, because even though I have my husband, his sperm was dodgy and I had very little/no fertile cervical mucous, so I thought this method might bypass my cervix and get the dodgy sperm a bit closer to their goal. I was surprised to read of so many people ordering sperm from sperm banks and having it shipped. Definitely not something available in Australia.