Getting pregnant naturally with low amh

[Chattycat78]

Hi guys,

I was lucky enough to have a baby 8 months ago through ivf, which was recommended to us as I have low amh (2.8- probably less now I imagine).
However, although I know I have been mega lucky, I would like to try for a sibling. Ideally I would like to try naturally for a while before jumping on the ivf bandwagon again. Does anyone know if this is possible? Am I delusional?
My logic is that if I'm ovulating and I can improve egg quality theough supplements etc then surely there is a chance? I'm 36. Also I have been pregnant before naturally (after 4 months trying) but unfortunately it was a mmc. There are no other infertility issues- partners sperm is normal. Any thoughts from anyone?

[Caroline9]

Hi ,
Anyone from London in this group going for 3 rd round of IVF?want to share the experiences of different clinics around?

[Everhopeful76]

Hi Shell.... I sent a private message because I had some other news but the original posting of this thread really doesn't so much resemble whats going on now.
When I finally "cycle" which I really hope I ll be on norethisterone by mid Feb (no idea what that is btw) I think I probably need to get on the cycle thread.
Hope all well with the pregnancy

[Shellster52]

I totally agree Everhopeful that the waiting is absolutely the worst part.

Congratulations on your little toddler tapenade. So glad for you that you didn't have to go through four years of struggle like me, or the tortuous wait and unknown that Everhopeful is facing and that you got pregnant on your first month of trying!

[Everhopeful76]

Yeah thank you tapenade70. I have only around 5/6 follicles all together, I had 4 when I first had the amh test last Oct and this was just 1.2. I suspect and hope that my AMH may have risen a little now and actually think it more important that the ones I ve got are better quality.
Shellster - did I see you post that you thought 1 follicle was worth about .5 of the AMH? On that basis I should have been around 2 to begin with. I guess its only an estimate.
When I was first tested I was in the throes of terrible endometrial cysts, lesions on bladder and generally in not great health. I didn't get the test again following the op because I thought... would it really help to know although admittedly am still curious. I ve also lost 3 stone and followed a pretty healthy diet, usually protein dominant although not strict with this all time
I also have the challenge of being single and using a donor which makes spontaneous planning quite difficult
So am doing IVF as my best shot, but haven't given up on getting pg naturally if I can sometime in the next year if this treatment fails.
Likewise I have found acupuncture beneficial, in fact am sure this is contributed to other cysts (fortunately not endometrial ones) dispersing or reducing.
This all said I do go into meltdowns frequently because for me the wait to attempt ivf has been very frustrating, possibly will have been the worst part of this process.
Thanks again, and seeing that you were able to fall pregnant quickly gives me hope x

[tapenade70]

I just saw this thread as saw a post on active threads about infertility and it made me think i should post something about low amh...just to give hope. I had v low amh. Think it was 2. Saw a fertility consultant. She said it might be the pill and to come off pill for a few months. It rose to 8. Still lowish. And the timing was bad as was in quite early stages of a relationship with my partner though we knew each other was 'the one'. Anyway we eventually agreed we'd stop contraception (on ger advice to do so when for both of you, getting pregnant wouldnt be a disaster). First month i did an ovulation test. On the best smiley day we had unprotected sex. And..i got pregnant! Sitting here with my wonderful toddler now. All those months of worry, googling low amh and fertility forums and what i would do it partner refused to try.. I saw the same consultant recently about another gynae issue and she was 't hugely surprised..she said my egg quality was obv good and that is more important than loads of poor quality eggs. Fwiw i had also done6 months of acupuncture with a v esteemed fertility acupuncturist in London. Who knowsif thathelped. I think it did though. So hope is out there ladies..please don't despair if you have a low amh

[Shellster52]

I'm relieved for you to hear that the inflammation is on the ovary rather than the uterus, so it won't interfere with implantation... although then that doesn't explain your horrendous and painful periods.

Yes, very hard to stay focused with it all. They have their overall statistics, but then you hear so many individual varied stories. Like you say, some get excited with 12 eggs but then have poor fertilisation or poor quality embryos, while I was in the latter group you describe, with my last IVF producing just 4 eggs and felt it was doom and gloom when only 2 fertilised, but they were both top quality on day 3 and obviously one took. You just really have no idea what will happen and I think that unknown is the hardest part.

[Everhopeful76]

Ah yeah I hadn't even thought of it that way, I don't think its big bucks more but yeah they are going to increase the cost.

Yeah inflammation on the left ovary only, and not too much so not feeling too unhappy about it.

Am hoping the DHEA helps with quality rather than quantity. I am seeing so many stories on here and other places, where people say they got 12 eggs and only 3 fertilised, so I was getting the prepare for the worst scenario from the FC, however others who had not many follicles to begin with and then say 2 eggs, 1 embryo, 1 baby. Am trying to stay focused with it all. Its all about statistics with the Consultants, some would choose not to have fertility treatment based on these statistics alone. Someone has to be the guinea pigs in this process to pave the way for others successes too.

[Shellster52]

Wow, this whole IVF shananagan really is a money grab isn't it. I can't believe they charge you more for choosing donors with super sperm, even though it obviously costs them no more to have the donor produce this donation, or for them to store it!

So the inflammation is on your ovaries, and not in your uterus where it might cause implantation issues?

I guess it's all just a process of getting through each day, taking your supplements, doing your acupuncture, etc as you count down - next update will be day 8 of your IVF cycle!

I never noticed any side effects from the DHEA, but also noticed it didn't seem to help me produce more follicles. So here's hoping the thinner greasier hair means it's also doing something on your ovaries where it is supposed to!

[Everhopeful76]

I really have no idea with this higher sperm motility, they are not swimming in and up the tubes in the normal way so couldn't really make sense of needing something higher if all done in a tube. In any case there aren't many super spermers, if there are the samples are much more exp, and I also need to get a donor who is CMV neg so plumping for somewhere in the middle. This is the best and a really important part of this process, really fascinating who you find!!
yeah I hope the DHEA will give an even better result but not having another scan now till day 8 of the IVF cycle. It seems there a couple more follicles but they could have been there all along I guess
The inflammation is nothing to do with the follicles just the old endo cyst casing or a corpus luteum has been suggested, so am hoping all fine there
back on the acupuncture on Saturday. I think the DHEA has definitely thinned my hair at worst and made it greasy at best, always washing it
x

[Shellster52]

HA (hyularonic acid) sperm selection is basically an extra step in selecting the best sperm for injecting into the egg. According to my reading, in a natural cycle, only the sperm that emit their HA receptors are able to penetrate an egg. So to mimic this, with HA sperm selection, the sperm is put into a petri dish with hyularonic acid to see which sperm emit their HA receptors and bind to the acid. Studies show that those which emit these receptors have significantly less DNA damage, so I assume in a natural cycle, it's natures way of ensuring that the best sperm penetrate the egg. I guess this might not be relevant to you if you are doing conventional IVF where the sperm is poured over the eggs to see which sperm naturally penetrate it? But since my hubby had been diagnosed with dud sperm and I was paying $6000 for a cycle anyway, I figured may as well pay an extra $400 for this step.

I am so relieved for you that the scan left you feeling positive. The best case scenario of 6 follicles sounds much better than previous scans!

But bummer about the slightly inflamed area. I never had any issues in that department, but I can imagine it is just one extra frustrating factor - if they do transfer an embryo and it didn't take, I guess there would not be anyway to definitively know if it was because of the inflammation or if the embryo was not right? The endo sounds just awful with the amount of pain you are in.

Also a bummer about having to wait a bit longer. I was just re-reading my IVF journal and how I wrote that time seemed to stand still once I knew when IVF was starting and had a date to count down towards. But it sounds like you have decided to be positive about it and use the time to crank up the high protein diet. And yes, hopefully the DHEA will have had more time and you will see 7-8 follicles at your next scan when you finally start IVF!!

Why does having a lower AMH mean that you need higher sperm motility? I understand that low AMH means fewer eggs, so is it just to ensure that the sperm is the best quality to try to maximise success with the few eggs you do produce?

[Everhopeful76]

Sooooo.... I had my scan. 1 cyst gone, the other reduced to 2 cm, and FC appears to be suggesting that I have possible 2 additional follicles from what can be seen on screen from diminished cysts. So worst case, have just 4 ( 3 on left,1 on right) best case 6 (4 on left and 2 on right). This feels so much more positive. That's based on taking DHEA for about 9 weeks!!

The negs are I have a slightly inflamed area where my old endo cyst was removed, slight concern that it might be trying to grow but damage limitation currently and cant start till next period which thanks to all this pain at weekend will mean that's not till 26th Jan ish so mid Feb on the norethisterone and downregs so most of the cycle in March.

I was really not happy that I couldn't start this month, but she has managed to convince me that not too much can alter in this time, not least cos I've already had my period this month and by leaving it an additional 5 weeks I will have taken DHEA for the proper 16 weeks (although I think it is 14.5) but near as damn it. Got quite tearful but actually got to meet the nurse today and she was so lovely so that put me at ease.

However I do feel endo is moving to neighbouring regions (pressing down on bladder, groin and even lower back, which is causing this pain so am going to go off the starchy carbs and limit dairy because any investigations for this would mean another lap, so again damage limitation. Doing the highest level of protein possible from tomorrow. I was in so much pain at w/e tho Shel, it completely exhausted me, so feel this is for the best.

In amongst all this I ve had stuff from embryologists about going for a slightly higher level of motility in terms of donor sperm due to AMH. Initially they seemed to be suggested that 10 or 20 is enough. Gotta go for at least 20, so think I might explore other banks seeing as I have a bit of extra time. Ahhhh.

[Everhopeful76]

Unfortunately the period is still continuing to be awful, but in the last couple of hours (and crossing everything here) it finally seems to be abating. I even thought it could be possible I was pregnant for about 2 mins and miscarried, such is the amount of blood, but I don't expect its that likely. Just an evil cycle. I am also seem to be flushing a lot, and having some peculiar aches and pains, lower back pain, groin pulling, and tops of legs seem pressured as well. God only knows.
Spent the evening finalising what donors are on my short list. Just got to sleep on it and prioritise this in the morning and get my last questions together and then am good to go. Really want to get on with it desperately. I have absolutely no side effects with DHEA apart from maybe greasy hair so really hope it has done something and the cysts on right have either gone or at least shrunk
What is the HA sperm selection you speak of?

[Shellster52]

Ah okay, so at least you did have a somewhat normal cycle - just short. That period does sound horrible. Mind you, I had the opposite trouble of a very light period with no cramping or symptoms and I used to hate it because I didn't think an embryo could implant in such a thin lining of a few drops of blood. So I guess we are never happy either way!

Yes the diet is easier in theory than in practice! But you sound like you've found some motivation with your IVF finally approaching. Looking forward to hearing how your scan goes. I hope it is good news and the DHEA has done something.

I did the yoga thing too... bot really sure if it was that helpful but I guess I was just desperate and tried anything and everything. I think for me, the main thing that helped was the high protein siet and paying extra for HA soeem selection as our embros were much better quality when we paid for this extra step.

[Everhopeful76]

Ahhh my ovulation date was day 11 (date of insem day 10) and the OPKs were obviously flashing 2 days in advance of that and my period eventually came back properly on Saturday so a 22 day cycle. Hardly ideal but at least the luteal phase was over 10 days. The spotting was literally nothing but it did happen a bit over that week, which made me think it was implantation bleeding, but sadly not.

I am still glad I did it, but am now of course desperate to get cracking with IVF regardless of it not being 16 weeks of taking the DHEA. It will be about 10 I think. The main concern I have is endo returning, was offered prostap injections last time but this may compromise fertility treatment so of course that was a resounding no thank you!!
This period has been an absolute bitch, really really heavy bleeding, and pain in groin, down legs and lower back. The leg ache is very unique and I feel that's pressure from endo, just so long as its not on an ovary I don't mind.

My diet not been great, haven't binged, just not been very hungry (terrible flu and then this awful period) so been busy looking at high protein recipes today, apparently the new craze is a combination of a paleo diet and vegan, which makes no sense describing it in this way cos clearly is the hunter/gatherer type food. So basically meat and plants haha.

Scan is on Wed and prior to that need to have my donor sperm shortlist good to go, obviously not going to get the drugs until I know I can proceed. I want to start with down regging asap but hopefully within 2 weeks. I have to synch appts with nurses and see the counsellor before I can start, as well as the drugs being ordered. The donor sperm less of a rush on as this takes 2-3 weeks.
Am going to start doing yoga x3 times per week and really stick to that. I really hope after all the hassle I ve had over last 6 months, that I can handle this drug regime. Im going for it regardless

How far along are you now? Is everything going well?

[Shellster52]

As I read your post, it takes my mind back so vividly to my days of TTC naturally. Here I was thinking that it must feel like a positive step for you to be doing something practical with donor sperm, but now you clearly remind me of the insanity that goes along with it... madly symptom spotting for the next two weeks, getting your hopes up, then coming crashing down when it doesn't work (which for me would normally mean junk food and alcohol) followed by trying to find renewed hope and starting the emotional cycle all over again. Welcome aboard!

But yes, an 18 day cycle certainly doesn't help the process. I wonder what is going on there???? It seems bizarre to get a positive OPK but then to get your period a few days later. If you did ovulate, your progesterone should have risen to stop your period from arriving, so I don't understand why you'd get a positive OPK if you didn't ovulate?!?!

[Everhopeful76]

Hiya - Happy new year love.

Sorry for the late response, I had not been able to open our conversation except for on my smart phone and that keeps crashing, and cant seem to work out how to send a private message.

The donor was someone who I met in the summer actually, who I decided to try with. It was AI.

It felt positive to be able to make a step forward. I am pretty sure it hasn't worked because I ve had an early cycle, but it really did play with my head because I was having spotting from day 18 and really felt this could have been implantation bleeding. Don't believe that to be the case now because it feels far more like a period coming on albeit early. My cycles are so odd tho so I will still do another test when my cycle was due to start based on an average one. So sick of short then long cycle because just don't know where I am.
Im really pleased that my weight has not changed over the xmas period. Having a terrible coldy flu has helped because my appetite has been quite low. That was another reason I thought could have meant positive news about a pregnancy. Don't think its meant to be, but it is a start. Miracles never happen to me x

[Shellster52]

Well it's new years eve here, so now the bit that you can't stand between 25th and new years eve is over.

And our family gatherings are over with too. It's certainly easier now that I am pregnant, but still I hold resentment. I don't want to feel this way and hoped it would all go away if I got my BFP, but it didn't. I guess we are just different people with different ethics and they are going to irritate me no matter what.

Must have felt a positive step of trying with the donor at the weekend - something practical instead of waiting, waiting, waiting. Can I ask how it works? How do you receive the sperm so that it is still fresh?

[Everhopeful76]

Hi!!
So the family gathering is already out of the way or is it actually on Xmas Day? Hope you feel relief or if not happened, just think of it as a very short time in the grand scheme of things. Come Spring you ll have your baby and you ll get to spend lots of time with him/her and it wont matter what all hubby's family is doing, but I can understand the resentment totally.
I actually tried with the donor at the weekend. A lot of messing around with ovulator test kits and the results being variable and actually think I did ovulate on monday so you never know it could have been the exact moment to try and that would be so fantastic if it was. Still as per the usual, gotta be a good egg, and gotta be good swimmers.
I also find xmas difficult because I do find my friends drop off around this year due to family get togethers or more often than not illness as well. people have time off work and then all the bugs surface.
My sister has had a load of fertility tests, appears ok, but she is 36. Her main obstruction is losing a lot of weight. So got a situation where she is staying put for xmas and then has the inlaws on boxing day, and I am with the folks but in between doing the volunteer work, then I d say it was all done, but I cant stand the bit in between xmas and new year either. 2016 - new year, new start.
Hope you have a peaceful xmas!!

[Shellster52]

Oh, the avoidance strategies - I know all about them. My husband is one of seven children. He has a brother that is cheating on his wife yet she wanted a baby that was conceived quickly, so that really stuck a dagger in my heart more than the average pregnancy. His other brother does not work yet managed to quickly and easily conceive their 1st and 2nd child while I was struggling. It really frustrates me that people who are perfectly able, don't work and just expect the rest of us to work and pay tax to fund their children. So more jealousy there. Then another brother of his who already has 3 children and both him and his wife don't work, decided to have a 4th. It's not uncommon for him to ring my husband and be stuck somewhere with no money, so my husband transfers money into his account. More frustration there for me too in my journey! I came up with many excuses for not attending family functions. Even now that I am finally pregnant, I still hold resentment. I think this journey just permanently changes you. And this time of year was particularly difficult, having to go to a family christmas get together and see them all, with it reminding me that another year had passed and I was another year older and my dream was less likely. So I really feel for you as I understand exactly what you mean about being so lonely.

I do remember reading of people 'ordering sperm' online. It isn't something that is done in Australia, but England is obviously much more forward with sperm donation websites and egg donor clinics, which Australia does not have. So forgive me if I make ignorant comments or ask stupid questions! Certainly sounds like it makes the process a lot easier though, being able to organise it from the privacy of your home rather than having to speak to someone face to face at a clinic. Is it expensive, or is it something that you are able to afford to keep trying?

[Everhopeful76]

Thank you.
No its through a donor website, its not through a clinic, but its a well regulated site and have built trust with one particular guy. Its AI, and I ll try a couple of times but of course with my period being late, my peak fertility may be on xmas day, which is hardly ideal, but am hoping it will just about fit in. Usually when my cycle is late, the ovulation is early but god knows.
I ve been tracking my cycle for ovulation since Jul, was going to go ahead with using a donor from that point, but that was before I knew what the low amh meant. I am hoping for a result from either the donor or ivf but if neither works first time, then I would continue trying with a donor till I decide what next step is.
Oh my god, it is so lonely at times and esp at this time of year. Did you lose friends through the process? I tend to adopt avoidant strategies to keep myself sane.

[Shellster52]

Congrats on the weight loss. 3 stone is an amazing effort!

So you are on Spatone as well as iron tablets! I know Spatone is scientifically shown not to cause side effects, but not sure it has any special properties to counteract the synthetic iron tablets side effects. I take Spatone alone and that seems to be enough for me. I've read that it is much more easily absorbed into the body than the synthetic stuff, so maybe that's why.

Sounds like it's a pro-active month ahead for you. I assume you'll be tracking your cycle for ovulation if you plan to use a donor this cycle, now that your period has FINALLY arrived. How does that system work? Do you have frozen sperm delivered to you by the company where he makes the deposit? All so new to me since I used my husbands sperm (although there were times when I wanted to threaten him with a donor since he was the diagnosed cause of our infertility but continued his horrid lifestyle!)

[Everhopeful76]

Hi Shell,

My FC tried to ring me on my mobile today but I missed the call. She should be ringing again tomorrow. Astounded that she tried to be honest, but I did ask her a lot of questions
I take the spatone as well which I hope helps counteract the iron tabs a bit, but still not great. I wonder if the bloating will contribute to weight gain, I ve lost 3 stone now since end of June. Quite proud of that really.
I haven't got a date for the new scan but hope it will be mid jan, gives me chance to do a last ditch attempt of using a private donor before the treatment starts. This is my way of moving myself forward. Would be great if I got a xmas miracle, although clearly either way given the time would not find this out till after the event. If IVF fails do plan on using the same donor. He s about 5 years younger, most sperm donors I ve been in contact with have been well into their 40s or even into their 50s. I gave up finding a partner long ago, being a mother became a much higher priority. I have had some awful relationships, so don't want that in my life anymore.
I finally got my period, was v v late and my hormone levels were off the scale, was experiencing agitation which I thought was purely psychological - really felt I d missed that cycle altogether but bad pmt must have been largely to blame.

[Shellster52]

I have read that synthetic iron can cause side effects such as constipation. I am taking a supplement called Spatone - it is a sachet of water that is sourced from a spring naturally containing high levels of iron. You can really taste the iron in it when you drink it. Don't know if something like that would help alleviate the side effects, but thought I'd mention it.

Had to laugh at your pun of selecting a sperm donor being a whole new ball game -without the balls! I met my husband at 27. Before him, I had not had a boyfriend for a while and clearly remember worrying that I was not meeting anyone and that I was going to be left on the shelf. So I can really imagine that at 33, the thought must have been even more present, and take a big decision to go on to then decide to do it alone with donor sperm.

Can't believe they take two weeks off to clean their IVF machinery?!?! Not sure what in the world takes two weeks to clean?!?! So did you get any idea as to when your scan is likely to be? My baseline scan had to be done on day 2/3 of my cycle when all the antral follicles can be counted before your body selects the strongest few to grow for the month and allows the others to shrink away.

I totally understand the waiting and inactivity being the hardest part. That is exactly what I found. Even after the first IVF cycle was a failure, I always found the worst part to be the waiting and recovering until I could try again. And of course after such a big build up of waiting, it was even more devastating to have failure when I finally got started!

I hope the FC gets back to you soon and gives you some answers as to what you need to be doing now so that you can feel like you are doing something practical instead of all the waiting!

[Everhopeful76]

Yes dhea at 75mg a day, & 600mg of the ubiquinol coq10, health food shop dose of agnas castas - altho am starting to think its the mini pill as still no period.

In an attempt to feel a bit more empowered ( as having such a rough time) I emailed the Consultant to get her to confirm what exactly I needed to do now. When you re stressing about when to get started you can easily miss things.
Like today I have asked for the earliest possible scan appt in Jan and asked at what time should I see the nurse. Very frustrating that they take 2 weeks out to clean their IVF machinery (like what!!) The FC's PA is very sensitive and very prompt with her replies but obviously she cant answer much of my questions.
Am waiting on the embryologist to get back to me as choosing a sperm donor - whole new ball game there, without the balls of course. When you make selections based on what they tell you at the clinic - motility quality scores, anonymity, amount of detail about donor etc, then you have very little choice, but have only just started looking so maybe I ve not quite god the hang of it yet.
Yeah am 39 and 5 months!! I started this process at just over 38 but it was then they found endo so this has been running a helluva time now, its the inaction that I just cant deal with, too much sitting around talking and not getting ahead. It has to be January, so I ve gotta get my skates on for the sperm as apparently that takes at least 2 weeks.
I have worried about this since the age of 33 but I ve really had a rough decade in general and did want to get myself more settled - turns out that is never the case.
Thank you - I am really hoping for a happy ending, I ve done everything else by the book. Latest addition is taking a high dose vit d ampoule to get me at therapeutic level, the iron deficiency is a worry tho because I cant tolerate the side effects, still if just for 6 weeks or so I guess I can