Women Bishops... why all the fuss?

[Chil1234]

Once again, the Anglican church seems to be tying itself up in knots about something and nothing. Women OK as priests, it seems, but not suitable bishop material and therefore elaborate exemptions are being discussed for 'traditionalists'. (Don't get them started on gay people...) The ABofC is allegedly on the verge of packing it all in. When it's a total eye-roller & a turn-off for most of us, it's a mystery why it is so important for some Anglicans to keep pouring oil on this fire. Bad PR. Bad for recruitment. Anyone got the inside track? Any CofE people out there who would be genuinely upset to have a woman as a bishop?

Well, because Christianity, like all the major myth systems, regards women as subhuman. ONe of the functions of superstition is to keep women in their place by insisting that they are inherently inferior.
NOw you get people who, while superstitious, are basically OK and reasonalby smart, and they want to adapt their mythology to reflect the best of present day society (equality, human rights etc) but then you've got the rest of them who really don't like the idea of allowing other people equality when they can cling on to the superior status their imaginary friend alledgely gave them.

yes strangely there are some CoE people out there who would be upset a women Bishop.

The Vicar (and some of his congregation) from one church in our town NEVER comes to the (regular) united churches services if they're held at either our church or one of the others in the town. We've "only" got female Vicars (and organist, and church wardens etc etc etc).

I have met many seemingly otherwise intelligent women who are biblically against the idea of women Vicars, and especially Bishops as well though.

Women ok as priests?....not to 99% of people.

As priests are representing christ (and he was a man) then of course they should be male. Men and women are equal in the eyes of god...but we have different functions, and priesthood is a male function.

Y'know some women wont be satisfied until they actually grow a pair, why do you have to get in on every act?

jeez..

well we all know that you know a different 99% of people to the rest of us DP.

"not to 99% of people"

really?

And the arguement that a woman can't represent Christ just because he was a man is just bizarre.

and have long hair and a beard.

Arguments against woman bishops do seem a bit weak. Firstly Christ was a man and He only appointed male apostles, prob not suprising given the age he lived in. Also some seem to believe that churches (and families) should be headed by men. That seems to be the best they can come up with.

And what's wrong with that Fuchzia?

Society works best when men and women have clearly defined roles.....it's only the confused liberals who want to change everything...just for the sake of it half the time.

chil the reason that this is happening is simple.

lots and lots of people are very very sexist.

the UK anglican church seems to be a little better than lots of other mainstream religions in this regard, but still

also we have an aging population and older people get more antsy about this sort of thing? growing up as they did with more definite ideas about what men and women do. and I imagine that the older population is v vocal in teh church and v important to them

Well to be fair (and I am not arguing for this, just know a lot of people who would) it's not based on sentiment but on interpretation of biblical passages such as:

1 Corinthians ch 14 v33-35 "As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

and 1 Timothy 2 v 11-12

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent."

How you deal with those passages depends on how you regard the status of the Bible and how it can be interpreted etc. If you regard the Bible as the authoritative Word of God that speaks the unchangeable truth for all time in a very literal sense then you can't switch that view here just because you don't like the outcome - it'll have a huge impact on the whole of your faith. Of course many people believe the essential truth of the Bible but interpret it looking at the context outside of the text as well as within and come to a view that women priests are fine but the fact that some people can do that with integrity doesn't mean that all can.

I agree it's nuts to allow women to be priests but not bishops but I disagree with the argument that all of those who object to women priests must simply be bigoted. Many people feel compelled to this conclusion (that they may personally dislike) because of their view on the Bible as a whole and that view on the Bible is the most important thing in their lives.

Hope that makes sense - just rushing off to work and not really proof read!

A while ago, the Roman Catholic church in Ireland announced that if there were any ministers in the Church of Ireland (ie, Anglican church) who were opposed to the new women ministers, then they could come in to the roman catholic fold. I'm paraphrasing that. But I had to put my hand to my mouth there. That's like saying 'misogynists and homophobes and bigots, roll up roll up, we want you".

Catz interesting Bible passages, thanks for posting. I'm not sure the CofE could justify using those passages as a reason to not have female bishops though, considering who the head of the CofE is...

My understanding is that the C of E General Synod voted to have women vicars. This debate is over. And while I am not C of E, really admire that it was done democratically. Discussed, debated and then voted upon.

Don't understand the objection to having women bishops as it's just a natural progression.

catz yes

but they don't enforce those ideas about women in any other context. women sing hymns and teach and do all sorts of things and its fine.

i think it's just that people don't like change and are sexist, rather than stemming from the bible. if you are the sort of person who thinks women should be seen and not heard and not teach and so on then there are plenty of other religions where you will be welcomed TBH

and yes the RC church did say that whole congregations could switch over if they wanted in a sort of amnesty

Unfortunately the bible is an edited book, it's written and edited by humans, probably exclusively male humans.

Jesus himself is recorded as having broken many of the social rules of the time regarding women having spoken to (and healed) a women suffering from 12 years of menstrual bleeding. Around half of him closest followers were women.

Mary Magdalene was chosen as the one to announce the Resurrection to the apostles!

Y'know some women wont be satisfied until they actually grow a pair, why do you have to get in on every act?

jeez..

Yer know DP - I wonder why you have referred to women in this way "why do YOU have to get in on every act?"

Is there something you are not telling us sir?

Christ was also Jewish and presumably circumcised. But the CofE doesn't insist all priests have to be circumcised and Jewish, oddly enough.

There's a tomb somewhere in Rome of a female Bishop from the very early days of the church (obv. not the CofE but you know, if you are going back to Biblical times, why not the Romans?). Inscription clearly describes her as a Bishop.

And if you read the Gospels, you'll see Jesus was no bigot. He preached against the Pharisees and deliberately went amongst people we'd now describe as marginalised.

As for 1 Timothy - who is the 'I' speaking there? Timothy, by any chance? Not Jesus, in whose name the Christian churches work.

Every time I think about things in the bible that are taken that we should apply them to modern life.

the thing is I have to take it in context of the times, I do not believe that the God that I love would have created Humans as a 2 tiered species. one better than the other.

In the times when Jesus was born it was in times where women aren't really respected as equals.

Now, as we have evolved and developed and there has been recognised that we are intellectual equals it makes sense that women should be able to have any job, in the church or not.

I am personally not interested in being quoted sections of the bible, I take it in context.

I'm all woman...just confident enough to know you (sometimes) have to treat people differently to treat them equally...

I think female priests look ridiculous.

I do find this debate about women bishops bizarre. Would someone like to remind me who is head of the Church of England ...

In what way do they look ridiculous?

The vicar at the church I attend rather suits her dog-collar and her sermons are interesting and make sense. She has two PHDs and can read Greek and some Hebrew. Forgive me if I think she rather suits the role she is in.