Jan Moir on Judy Murray, mother of Andrew

[MmeLindt]

the DM

Not sure what to think about this tbh. On the one hand she is "defending" Judy Murray, and yet at the same time Moir is so nasty about her:

"Even worse that all that, up there in the bleachers, usually skirling like a banshee, is his ever-present mother.

She, too, is a shouter, a grunter, a clenched-fist maker of horrid, gurning faces. She seems forever on the verge of conniptions; half-mad with grief or triumph, depending on her boy's results."

She states that Judy can do not right, that she is always portrayed as a pushy parent, which is something that I had not really seen her to be. Ambitious for her son, yes. Proud, absolutely.

And the statement that it is sexist to call her pushy, when fathers of tennis players are not criticised is simply ridiculous. One of the pushiest parents in tennis was Steffi Graff's father. And he was roundly criticised, in Germany anyway.

What do you think?

And what does "conniptions" mean?

She also mentions that Andrew and his brother still get on well, despite his success. Is this such a seldom occurrence?

Pure vitriol, and pure supposition. Hope Mrs Murray sues.

"conniption" -Informal A fit of violent emotion, such as anger or panic.

So I am not being over-sensitive? It is a bitchy article disguised as a supportive one.

Jan Moir strikes again.

She is so vicious.

Why can't Judy Murray just be supporting her son? If she wasn't there she would be picked on.

What about Venus and Serena Williams parents? They often attend their matches yet nobody gives them a hard time.

Jan Moir, for example...

oh and mmelindt your link is wrong . Good job it wasn't something rude, huh?

How did that happen? I definitely linked to the Mail, I got the "Read more" blah blah text and deleted it.

Link here

I think a lot of tennis parents are mad loons.

Thw Williams father decided that Venus would be a tennis player whilst she was still in utero. Those two had no chance - they were simply vessels for their father's ambition.

Ditto Martina Hingis whose obsessive mother named her after Martina Navratilova and decided that she would be a tennis star.

Ditto Greg Rusedski, Steffi Graf, jennifer Capriati whose fathers dominated them and completly ruled their life, both in tennis and out.

Poor sods.

I think Anyd Murray's mother is of a similar ilk.

I think you have misread Jan Moir's article. She clearly thinks that Judy Murray is a great person, as do I. Even the title of the article spells it out

"As a mother, Mrs Murray is a champion"

and there are numerous other examples of praise for Judy Murray
"I would say there is nobility in what she has achieved, both as a mother and a friend."

"And the statement that it is sexist to call her pushy, when fathers of tennis players are not criticised is simply ridiculous."

I don't think it is ridiculous, it is spot on. Richard Williams was a pushy father and is widely and rightly praised for it. Judy Murray was a pushy mother and without her determination her sons would never be where they are today. They owe it to her. She is an exceptional person, just like Richard Williams. There is a latent sexism which thinks that women can't be as determined and driven as men, and that if they are then there is something wrong with them and that they are neglecting their families or children in some way. She is exceptional and is an example to other parents. Her son is a great tennis player and she is rightly proud of what she has achieved in helping him get there. Jan Moir recognises that and is honouring Judy Murray.

I don't think the level of pushiness as performed by Richard Williams is prasiwrothy at all, to be honest.

surely fathers are usually the pushy ones and nobody is afraid to call them as such quite regularly so can't see what kind of point she is attempting to make about sexism. Except for rugby, then the mums are always the pushy ones.

GetOrfMoiLand, that's why we are different politically. I believe in excellence of all sorts, I believe in exams, tests, standards, grammar schools, competitive sports days, competition, and rewarding high achievers.

Claig
It is the way she first sets the scene, saying that Judy is to be found on the bleachers, "skirling like a banshee... a shouter, a grunter, a clenched-fist maker of horrid gurning faces".

It seems unnecessary to portray her so horribly if you are actually supporting her.

If you take photos of anyone watching an exciting sports events, you are going to see them gurn and make odd grimaces.

Is it just Tennis Parents then, who are criticised as being pushy parents? What about football players, surely their parents would be worse, considering the fact that there is much more money to be earned in football.

"skirling like a banshee... a shouter, a grunter, a clenched-fist maker of horrid gurning faces".

but even that is praise. She is a champion in her seat, just like her son and Nadal who grunt and gurn after each stroke. She is living every moment of it with her son, she is not just watching dispassionately, prim and proper. Just look at the photo of her in the article. She is just as much a champion as her son.

I think football parents won't be criticised because it will more often be men who encouraged their sons. Judy Murray is a woman who has nearly single-handedly led her son to the top flights of world tennis, that is why she is criticised by some.

She's just picking up on the articles about Mrs Murray in the Telegraph on Wednesday.

Jan Moir? In the Daily Mail? It was never going to be a pleasant article.

I think a lot of what she says is spot on but she ruins her point by trying to make points about a sport she is clearly ignorant of to try and make a point about sexism.
"I think football parents won't be criticised because it will more often be men who encouraged their sons."
they are regularly and routinely criticised for their pushy ways and it's a widely recognised problem within the game which is being targetted right through from grass roots by the FA to the higher levels by the clubs themselves which ban parents from doing anything other than clapping/positive comments.

By claig Fri 02-Jul-10 09:51:34
GetOrfMoiLand, that's why we are different politically. I believe in excellence of all sorts, I believe in exams, tests, standards, grammar schools, competitive sports days, competition, and rewarding high achievers.

Cliag - what an insufferably smug post. How on earth can you presume to know how different 'politically' you are to me?

For what it's worth, I also believe in exams, tests, standards and 'excellence of all sorts'. What I do not believe in is the kind of pushiness and obsessive drive to make your children achieve goals at the expense of a normal childhood, and for parents to live vicariously through their children as I believe the Williams father has.

I found this article by Judy Murray on the topic of pushy parents.

Seems that she is a model of decorum and politeness in comparison.

My American friend told me that you have not seen a pushy parent until you have been to a Little League game and heard the parents shout at their DC. And these are 9/10 yo children, not teenagers.

GetOrfMoiLand, I apologise, I know that we are different politically, because I know that you are a socialist. I do believe that socialists and conservatives see life, success and competitiveness in different ways. I don't think many conservatives would believe in non-competitive sports days. I don't know what your views on that are. I think there is a real divide between political opposites.

Oh all right then - I had no idea that you remembered that I am a leftie. Must have been from all the rows heated debates at election time

I think it is a bit simplistic to say that political leanings will affect how competitive you are - I suppose it is the old tory individual V socialist collective argumnent, I suppose.

For what it's worth, I am pretty pushy for my daughter - she has played competitive sports for years (rugby, football, cricket) at county level (cricket anyway). I am very strict with her about achieving her best, and she pushes herself as well.

Work wise i have always told her that she needs to excel at school in order to excel at work. i have worked my way up to a senior level in engineering so push myself as well.

But I think that tennis parents take pushiness too far.

I think we all recognise that a) there is nothing wrong with wanting to help our children do well per se
b) there are boundaries related to such behaviour and if you cross them (think fathers of Steffi Graf and Macauly Culkin).

It's not just fathers, it's not just tennis parents (Macauly Culkin's progenitor was well and truly hated). I think the reason football parents are spared is that footballers are a team, it is not just about one person, so anyone who is interested in just their own child is less visible to the public (no doubt they may still be loathed by coaches and team managers, but we don't get to know that).

lost half a sentence:

b) there are boundaries related to such behaviour and if you cross them (think fathers of Steffi Graf and Macauly Culkin) you are not actually doing your child any favours

"so anyone who is interested in just their own child is less visible to the public (no doubt they may still be loathed by coaches and team managers, but we don't get to know that"

as a coach i caan assure you they are