American/ British relations strained because of oil spill and blame game?

[bebemoohatessnot]

I'm actually wondering about the personal side of this issue....
Being an American, but resident in Britain, can be tough sometimes when it comes to politics. I find myself as challenged lately mediating 'the sides' on the oil spill as I did trying to explain the Gulf war point of view to people.

Do you find yourself (or others) being overly defensive (of one side or another) because of the media involved with the oil spill? Does anyone else get tired of trying to wade through the information and the sweeping statements of blame.

and why, can't we see in others what we see in ourselves? and why can't our understanding of ourselves and our goals and fears help us to treat others a little better?

I think the USA is massively underestimating the potential to damage the relationship with the UK here. If the UK tabloid media turn against the US and start rowing in behind BP there could be a lot of political pressure on Cameron to 'do something'.

Obahma does not have a good relationship with Cameron and Democrats and Tory adminstrations are not politically close.

My betting is that the tabloids would start calling for troop withdrawals from Afghanistan and let the US sort out its own foreign policy issues. Not militarily significant but politically uncomfortable for the USA.

People died

livelihoods lost

gulf ecosystem fucked, maybe for good

Gosh, why are those silly Yankees so upset?

It must be cos they are anti British

if I could roll my eyes any harder I could see my own brain lol

Saw quite a lot of people on the news standing around in the US waving placards with Seize BP Assets' written on them. I heard a US politican suggested it a week or so ago as well.

In other words expropriation/confiscation of the major part of the assets of a UK listed company. If that happens, it will be a major diplomatic mistake.

Milamae's right, the US has stomped all over other countries in pursuit of oil (and other substances) for decades. Now they are getting a taste of their own medicine. Crying shame for all the ordinary people losing the livelihoods, flora and fauna, though.

It was their cosy regulatory system that let this happen. It was a US-operated oil rig (although I think the company had gone, um, off-shore). BP were obviously shit but the US regulators, government, lobbyists and politicians have responsibility for this mess too.

This article pretty much sums up exactly how I feel:-

www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/LF19Dj01.html

You will always have those groups (really hope it's just one group and it's getting smaller, tho I have great fear that it's not) who simplify the issue down to them vs us and make everything stark Black and White. It is a very unfortunate result of not a lot of education and empathy/sympathy. And people in the heat of the moment with do and say things which the oughtn't.
I really don't thing they's seize BPs assets for just the reason you say Edam (a diplomatic issue). But surely no one in the UK would find it wrong that BP do pay for what wrong they've done and continue to help with clean up measures? Just as any oil company really ought. (acknowledging that this is not always the case, but that does not mean it should always be the case)

I also think it's important to get 'off the oil' and Obama's continued statements of this while to some might seem political (in that they offer no details) are well placed. He's continuing to do what we as parents do with our children...i.e. say see how bad things are when you don't do what I tell you is for your own good? Now if you stop trying to climb the bookshelves (dig deeper to get oil) you wouldn't fall off and knock your head (have a global/environmental disaster at your back door). Why don't you play with your dolly instead (look to alternative resources)?

The US government has done some horrible things in pursuit of oil and other natural resources. It is very true. I do not believe anyone would really refute that. Tho I do think that some would say (wrongly) it was necessary to do some evil to do some good. Other countries have done equally bad things in the past; because the world was a 'larger' place and not as globally connected the effects were not necessarily as far reaching. (I'm thinking of imperialism here) It was not possible to have such horrible disasters in the more innocent ages of wind and water and steam. The populations were not so dense either of course so it was easier for a population to move away from a disaster area to let it recover.
I've heard a lot of people (British) say 'But we learned that Imperialism was wrong and have made amends. Why has the US not learned the same thing?'
I cannot wholly answer this question because I do not know. I do not know why the US still struggles to come to terms with global responsibility. It is too easy to make sweeping generalisation and perhaps romanticise things too much.
But all the same I think it has a lot to do with the past that people always bring up. America was founded by people who felt the need to leave home. It was founded by people dispossessed of land for many reasons (religious, environmental, greed). They grew a country up far from the rest of world. Where they were left to fester a bit, further breeding a distrust of the 'others who tried to oppress us' over there. People focused on their own lives and making their own little world work, doing what they felt they had to do to 'get things done' so they could survive. And strongly opposing people they felt were trying to stop them from 'making a go of it.' This led to isolationist policies which were only dropped really less than a hundred years ago (so within some peoples memories and still affecting my grandparents generation). Even now there are so many people that feel the rest of the world might as well be on another planet it's so far away. They think it's ungodly expensive to fly to Europe. Because they think that they don't even 'look' over here. It's a fairytale to them. Not really real. (I found it so very frustrating growing up with people like that.)
This is the mindset I think of the 'average' American tho. This is why there is a struggle for change in America when it comes to global issues. I really think however with the internet there will be quicker change. And as the generation of 'globalised' Americans come into power and start teaching the young change will come at a faster rate. (Or so I hope.) It was why Obama being in office was so important. --Finally someone young(er), (after the Vietnam conflict era of our history) who is educated and aware of the world as a whole. Someone more like we should be aspiring to be. Someone with vision who is not as likely to dwell on traditional roles we've played, but who can help us move into the 21st Century and all that entails. (But there you go I've accidentally shown my romantic idealism again)

I also find it very sad that it's still just the talk about how this is just affecting Americans. The Gulf Coast is affected. It's not just America that touches the gulf And even if it was...the currents move... The affects of this oil spill are going to be far reaching. It might be 'ground zero,' but the fallout zone is equally devastating. (Yet people condemn Americans for focussing too narrowly Let's be honest it is a horrible fact that we all do this. Our brains often have trouble grasping vast ideas; multiple possibilities are overwhelming to us)

A US oil company (Chevron) and a French oil company (Total) have been found guilty in a criminal trial over safety fuck-ups causing the Buncefield explosion. It was miraculous that no-one died - purely because it happened on a Sunday morning. But 43 people were injured and many more homes and businesses destroyed.

Don't suppose any Americans will notice or care, though.

Seems to me oil companies of all nationalities are out of control and don't give a flying fuck about who they kill and what damage they do. Look at the Niger delta.

Not sure that the Buncefield explosion verdict will be carried in most US local papers...or be on their local news. So Americans might not have the chance to notice or care. (Unless their town happens to be a locale for Chevron business )

Yes and there is no anti-French or anti-USA feeling because of Buncefield and no demands or up front payments of damages or political grandstanding even though some people had their homes all but physically destroyed.

Agree with milamae's 19.27 post.

Also heard somewhere that more oil is spilled into the niger delta, every year, year on year, than is happening in the US. Yes no-one seems quite so bothered about that for some unfathomable reason

I do think that the finger pointing etc is a bit rich given what happened in Bhopal. That incident was disgusting, the comaany that did it tried to deny that it was that bad, refused to compensate etc the effects of that are still beign felt today.

With this, what they need to do, is have the situation and everyone investigated by impartial people, who can report on what went wrong, why etc.

What is teh point of asking someone what went wrong when no-one knows yet? It seems a bit odd. I didn't see much of the BP bloke getting grilled but if he was being asked questions that he couldn't answer then what do people expect him to do.

So I'm gathering that those of you who are British are feeling blamed for the oil spill and feeling the strain in your relationship with your American 'cousins'? Is it the media who is making you feel defensive? Or has it been Americans that you know?

Hopefully this will be a wake-up call about oil dependency for teh US, and one of the worlds largest per capita oil consumers (the largest?) will start taking ideas of renewable/alternative energy solutions more seriously.

This worldwide fixation with fossil fuels needs to stop. As long as the US, teh most powerful country in the world, and the one that so many people aspire to, is still engaged in this love affair, that task is so much harder.

This is a good opportunity for the UK govt to realign its 'special relationship' with the US. Let's see if our PM is up to the job.

I feel sorry for the US president - he has a long 'to do' list and faces much criticism at home BUT he has definately misinterpreted the name of the company for political gain at a time where the problem needs to be dealt with not just finger pointing and crappy rhetoric.

And yes, the CEO of BP has been crass. But there are many cases of fraudulent claims - I know as my own dear cousin was put on trial for a false claim in New Orleans. It does happen.

It would be helpful if Obama could state what exactly the claims would be for (and BP are responsible and should fork out) rather than suggest that British Petroleum be presented with a bill. A bill for what exactly - bill for psychotherapy for people affected by this. What are the parementers?

Bebe

I feel that Britain is blamed for the distaster. As I'm British I feel blamed. However, I don't feel responsible (oddly).

For that reason I don't feel that Britons should be defending themselves. BP should be working flat out to clean up its mess and then the authorities should look long and hard at deep sea drilling.

Well not a wake up call per se, but I think you would find what 30 somethings and younger are aware of the need for other fuels. And are open to other possibilities.
Things are progressing. Where I grew up there are hundreds of wind turbines for instance (and in these last 2 years alone) where before it was just farm land. (People complain abt them just as they do here, but they've still gone up because the benefits outweigh the problems.)
Think about how long it takes to get the EU to agree on things which affect the countries of Europe. It is much the same in the US. What is acceptable and indeed desirable in one state is frowned up in another and lobbied against in yet another. It can be very frustrating. But it is also which stops the weirdos and fanatics from taking over completely .

I think that teh perception of US to outsiders is very powerful - and mainly through the telly. As I understand it, each state has its own flavour, and they differ vastly, and of course individuals have as diverse a range of view as anywhere else. I don;t think that saying "americans are all like this" is very helpful...

Having said that, I think that if you watch US television (dramas and things) a lot of it is a display of inordinate consumption, everyone driving around in huge cars and so on, which does create a certain impression. Which millions of people around the world then aspire to. The land which gave us the Humvee has something to answer for in the environmental stakes as far as I am concerned.

The same 'propaganda' which the world sees on telly is also aimed at Americans. It is part of what has made America. From the beginning America has been marketed to outsiders (and insiders) as being 'the' place to be. The land of opportunity, to be as rich as you like, to have as much as you like... Only now people are beginning to realise that it's not the case any longer, that there are other things to think about.
TV still does not reflect much of this change. But there are far more Prius on TV then HumVees now.
I do wish I could shake people though and get them to move on things quicker. The easiest way to do that though is to hit their pocketbook. And you do see far more small cars on the roads or cars which are getting better mileage, and you see people trying to save energy and 'remembering' what their grandparents knew about keeping warm or cool during the extremes of weather.
But yes, it doesn't happen fast.

What's humvee?????

But I guess the reverse is also true. I've noted that for years the villains in US programming are usually foreigners and usually with a cut glass english accent.

But if it floats their boat......

I like the country and I have US connections and I'm not the kind of person who thinks that Europe has a certain moral highground (far from it).

It has the best of good and bad, and very insular.

Americans are having a hard time but they need to realise that alot of it is of th US's own making and its influence on the world is greater than the influence of the rest of the world on it.

This disaster is one of many in the world. No more and no less. Americans have no more right than anyone else to live in a clean, decent environment and not to have their businesses interrupted because of a man made disaster. I think that's what is pissing people off.

And look at Bhopal - they got (paltry - really fucking paltry) compensation for something that still affects them - their birth deformities, life expectancy etc to this day.

So, again, the rhetoric needs to be less blame and victimhood and more in relation to cooperating with the companies to clear this up and look to minimise future risk by being more open to alternative fuels.

Yes Giveitago. I really think that's it, 'the rhetoric needs to be less blame and victimhood and more in relation to cooperating with the companies to clear this up and look to minimise future risk by being more open to alternative fuels.' I think that's why I'm so disheartened by the Americans, Media, British and maybe even the world as a whole.