Fox Attack On Twin Girls

[saggyhairyarse]

I just read this on the 'Latest News' on BBC News but when I clicked on the headline there was no info.

I am shocked and hoping they are not seriously hurt.

i havent read rightto the end of the thread so sorry if it has been covered but i have a few questions.

1. surely it would be easy to prove that any injuries were caused by a fox? 2)the report says the mother saw the fox in the room.
2. the fox was caught in a trap only a couple of hours later and killed.

surely that is enough evidence to prove it was a fox. i agree with others that a small baby could easily resemble prey for a fox.

Point 3 should read " A fox, not " the fox"...

fair point, it could have been any fox caught.

Agree totally with Wannabe's post earlier. Feeding urban foxes does neither them nor us any favours. Treating them like pets crosses a line that can have bad consequences for both species.

It's interesting that people are referring to bears, because this discussion reminded me of a scene from the film Grizzly Man, about Tim Treadwell who lived with bears for 13 years until he was killed by one. The filmmaker interviews a native Alaskan who says:

"I think he did more damage to the bears than he did... Because when you habituate bears to humans, they think all humans are safe.

Where I grew up, the bears avoid us and we avoid them. They're not habituated to us. If I look at it from my culture, Timothy crossed a boundary that we have lived with for years.

It's an unspoken boundary, an unknown boundary. But when we know we've crossed it, we pay the price."

Of course I'm not saying foxes are as dangerous as bears or that they should all be shot. But they should be respected and part of that respect is accepting that they are wild animals and should be treated with as little human intervention as possible.

Tethers - don't worry. I was also thinking about the bears in Canada and N USA when Morloth was arguing for feeding foxes earlier. Its a completely logical argument; just so happens foxes aren't as dangerous as bears. I still wouldn't want one in my house and I don't much enjoy seeing them in my garden, or hearing them shrieking out in the streets at night, either.

very very sad. When my first son was a few months old, he was a sleep in a baby seat near the kitchen back door which was open. I came down ito the kitchen just in time to chase a fox OUT of the kitchen. We never left him in the garden out of sight until he was much older after that.

Poor babies. And poor mother too.

If anyone knows and freaky neighbours/nannas/nutters deliberately feeding foxes, get 'em to stop now!

Surely then ChickBartowski you can see my actual point - which is that people should not feed foxes?

Foxes will kill cats if they can catch them. Something to bear in mind if you feed foxes and also own an elderly feline. Foxes also carry mange, which can be caught by dogs and cats and is horrible for them, plus being difficult and expensive to deal with.
Many urban foxes I see are leading miserable lives, they are skinny, mangy and sometimes have been injured. Because we are providing them with easy sources of food they are becoming over-populated. We need to manage our rubbish more effectively and have effective culling of these poor creatures.
Foxes are more easily controlled in the countryside, where at least they can be shot. Man has upset the natural balance, so, however unpalatable it may be, man has the responsibility to try to put things right.

I used to live in north east london and there were lots of urban foxes. One night I saw two foxes kill a cat. I rang someone who worked with a fox society and he said a fox wouldn't do that but they looked for the cat's body and found it and autopsied. It was confirmed as killed by foxes - they ripped it's throat out. This was on a terraced London road and was ferocious. Then you see the state of the foxes and think it might be a kindness to cull because they look mangy and malnourished.

Just read another report on this. Apparently the parents had had a BBQ in the garden that evening - I wonder if the smell of cooking meat attracted the fox.

And the police saw the fox when they arrived at the property.

I hope some people on here feel ashamed of themselves. Even if you were thinking it, to say it on here with no proof when those poor parents were going through hell was unspeakable. I hope that the mother is not on Mumsnet. She would be devastated to see some of the posts on here. And yes, I know some people backtracked, but you'd already printed stuff on here. You would be sued if you did that anywhere else.

The piece in the Guardian by Nutkins is just vile!! I am so reading shit like this:

"What I am definite about is that this fox did not go "on purpose" to attack the two children; that's simply not what foxes want to do. Any injury it caused those children would have been, in that sense, accidental."

How DARE he? How can he know. Arsewipe.

The poor, poor babies and their parents. I really hope they make it and can full recover, especially the one twin who has been harmed more seriously.

Some of the posters in this thread have been cruel in airing their hurtful speculations and denials. You know who you are and you should be ashamed. Imagine if those were your babies.

I'm all for shooting relocating/controlling urban foxes. They are vermin, much like pigeons but more of a danger. I was always under the impression that they're shy, but living in London has shown me how used to human contact they actually are.

My thoughts and prayers are with the family.

Foxes attack for too reasons:

in self defence
for food.

It seems perfectly plausable that the fox smelt the BBQ meat and went searching for food, and unfortunately found the too babies.

When camping in Australia we were warned by park wardens about BBQ meat as this attracts the wild dingos.

two not too!

I heard an interesting theory last night:

Foxes frequently scavenge from bins which often contain disposable nappies. If they are used to the smell of nappies being associated with food nearby what is to say the fox wandered in, smelt the nappies and assumed it meant food?

Apparently this theory has been gaining credence for a number of years.

good point about the nappies, I was thinking about nappies being in bins that are not collected for two weeks.

Why should anyone be ashamed kitty? If anyone has said 'Oh who cares what happens to the babies' I'd agree with you but no-one did.

The reason so many people posted was to proactively argue against expected reactions like yours "I'm all for shooting relocating/controlling urban foxes. They are vermin, much like pigeons but more of a danger.". People wanting revenge on animals that have to try to fit in with the weird and polarised environment we create.

Can we stop this nonsense about 'blaming' the fox?

People's horror at this awful tragedy doesn't equate to blaming an animal- it's ludicrous to suggest so. Just because I don't accept that the family was in any way responsible doesn't mean that I think the fox was and want to see it punished. As I have said (many times) before, it is an animal with no moral compass.

Polarising the argument in this way is ridiculous.

BTW, "proactively argue against expected reactions" is the best way of describing posting offensive comments I have ever heard. Brilliant. Get your retaliation in first.

Offensive? Offensive how?

I worded that poorly, Orm.

I was just at the phrase "proactively argue against expected reactions"- the best description of starting an argument I have ever heard would be more accurate.

there are still an awful lot of experts disputing the validity of this story. No they may not be coming straight out and saying that they don't believe it happened, but a lot of them are talking on the radio etc saying things like "of course we don't know all the facts," which IMO seems to be the implication that not everyone in the know thinks this is as straightforward as it is being reported.