Coalition government sets out radical welfare reform

[ElenorRigby]

Britain's welfare system is "bust", with such penal disincentives to work that many people on benefits regard those who take up job offers as "bloody morons"
Strange days...

Seriously making JSA easier and quicker to access would make a big difference. If someone knows it takes 6 weeks to sort out a claim (cos the dole office is understaffed) then they are not going to take temporary work - they know that temp work will help them to find permanent employment and that the job could infact become permanent - but the risk of taking a min wage job and then losing it after 2 weeks and having no money at all for 6 weeks after that is a massive disincentive - there needs to be a way of people having benefits suspended, but staying in the system so they can very quickly/immediatly be reinstated if they take temporary employment.

I think the amount of people who have never worked is a problem - but I don't know the answer.

I also think the fact that the gap between the richest and poorest in society seems to widen every year is a real problem - there are some super rich people creaming off a massive chunk of the wealth in this country. I suspect many of them greatly benefited from the bank bail out and yet ALL of us have to pay for that?

I worry about our reliance on the markets - the need of business to not just make money, but to make more money year on year to protect stock prices just doesn't seem fair. I worked for a company who made £18million profit and as a result had to make 10% of its workforce redundant, because the profit wasn't big enough - seems barmy to me.

Agree with MintHumbug.

The UK has had this coming for a long time.

Being on benefits isn't great, but neither is it great to work long hours every week and find you're no better off than if you do nothing. Many hard working people have put up with this for far too long, and I'm not a bit surprised that in the climate of economic recovery, people are saying 'enough is enough'.

There has been a lot in the media this week about the welfare system having turned into a trap rather than a safety net - which is true. It's not fit for the purpose it was designed for any longer. It was never meant to provide the choice to not work if you're capable of it.

And for those who go on about 'What jobs?' - well, people who actively seek work, and are willing to do the jobs which are available have nothing to fear do they? If people don't want to work because they think a particular job is beneath them, or they don't want to have to get up that early, or work late, or the job isn't five minutes along the road, or whatever pathetic excuse - well, surely it's entirely reasonable to cut their benefits? Why should some people have an entitlement to pick and choose while others just accept that working is part of adult life?

Change is necessary, and long overdue.

well I couldn't work late - or early - there's no childcare available.

Childminders are more flexible than nurseries. Having said that, my kids' nursery allowed my to drop them half an hour earlier than their official opening time - they charged double rates during this half hour, and the same for 'lates' at the other end of the day. Yea - not nice having to part with even more cash, but hey, that's life.

yes but then you have to find a childminder who can take all of your children, and 1/2hr before official opening time, and a little at the end of the day doesn't help with early morning/evening/night/weekend shifts does it?

And if you're parting with more cash and you're don't have the money to part with........

With regards to graduates, I do think that some expect too much, assumuing they will walk into a graduate training scheme or well paid, respected job.

I didn't do a degree that qualified me to do anything in particular and after being turned down for loads of admin jobs when I graduated I finally got a job in a call centre. The place was packed with graduates.

I put the time in, then went for a job answering calls for the police, applied for a better job there, got it, then a better one, got that and finally ended up going into the civil service to a well paid post which made use of my qualifications and my experience.

But I know plenty of people who are still not doing very much because they think call centre work or whatever is beneath them.

No, what I describe isn't what any 18yo can do because a degree is a required part of the job that I do now.

What's your point Riven?

On re-reading your post I assume you mean it's better for a graduate to not work at all if they can't find a graduate level entry job?

How does that work then?

I totally agree that people need to think about whether doing a degree is worthwhile or not.

But putting in three whole years (!) at university doesn't necessarily mean that you'll walk straight into a graduate job and can't learn something from starting at the bottom.

I agree withorwithoutyou - it's about thinking long term.

Often there's a ceiling on what a non-graduate can earn, and having a degree may ultimately open doors for you, even if you have to work your way up, and do some low status work to start with.

Trouble is, too many young people want it all straight away these days - nice flat or house to rent, a car, i-phone, sky tv etc plus frequent socialising. Back in the day, young people lived far more frugally - as a University student I think I knew one other student who ran a car, everyone wore second hand clothes and we lived on beans on toast and cheap beer. I don't remember things being massively different when we graduated - we lived frugally, worked our way up etc. I think people have unrealistic expectations these days.

(god am I turning into my mother!)

I agree violethill, when I graduated I remember earning £650 a month and my rent being £300. It was bloody hard!

Better than running home to Mummy and Daddy and whining about their being no jobs though.

This graduate thing

I agree that many people with degrees have expectations which are too high

This is not their fault - the govt seems to be obsessed with everyone going to uni, DH (who is a but younger than me) says that when he was at school there were adverst all over the place saying that people with degrees walk into fab jobs, earn loads of money etc etc and they all (naturally) beieved it.

What the ads didn't think to mention was that improved outcomes depended on a variety of things - which uni, which course etc etc

I also left uni and went and got a min wage job - that was fine - I have worked my way up and did pretty well before the usual kids/parttime local/job downgrade thing.

I think if graduates really are sitting at home on benefits ratehr than going out and getting a job, AS they won't accept a starting salary less than XXX, then that is pretty feeble frnakly. Where is the work ethic?

Ha

DH is a bit younger

His butt is younger too

As for the benefits thing, I also think that the min wage is too low. The govt is effectively subsidising low wages. not good.

lets face it many young people do degrees because all their friends do and it's a lifestyle choice to go to uni and party, doing the studenty thing. It sounds a lot cooler than working in BHS on the tills and it puts off them having to grow up for a few more years, give up on all the holidays, usually help from parents to pay their hols, clothes, cars, year travelling overseas etc.

yes, but once upon a time it was much more selective and generally fewer and more academic kids went to uni. Now it's just expected and entry standards seem much lower. Kids in general have higher expectations and have much more than we had in our day just as we had much more than our parents had.

They govt needs to be very careful about how they review people on disability. As it stands, currently a person disabled by injury can have their pension removed arbitrarily after being reviewed by a doctor who has never met the patient before and has little idea of their physical state.

FIL has lived with chronic pain and unable to move freely since surgery on spine. He had his pension removed by someone in an office he never met and had to fight in court to get his pension back. If the new government is going to get "tougher" than this, I imagine there will be

a: many scroungers rightfully kicked off benefits
b: many innocent people with genuine disabilities and hardships cut off from their only income and made homeless or dependant on relatives

I hope they get this right.