greece riot over debt crisis....

[Nointhemood]

police are trying to stop protesters from storming parliament.

www.metro.co.uk/news/824710-greek-riots-in-athens-over-spending-cuts

And to cheer you further, the UK deficit is going to be bigger than the Greek deficit according to the Indie.

I'm not that clued up about all of this but if Greece don't comply with the austerity measures what will happen? Will the go bankrupt? Will they get thrown out of the Euro?

Our deficit might be slightly bigger (12% of GDP in the UK vs. Greece's 9.3% according to the Indy) but Greece's total debt relative to GDP is nearly double ours (again according to the Indy it's 79% for the UK and nearly 125% for Greece).

So Greece is much further in debt and has to deal with the interest payments on that.

Plus Greece's loans are coming up to being due and the banks aren't keen on renewing them, our loans aren't due for a long time.

Finally Greece has a history of fiddling it's historic debt figures. They've ammended what their debt and deficit were for years past several times with each revision becoming increasingly worse. Basically the banks don't trust them.

So Greece's situation is far worse than ours, not that ours is anything to be proud of.

Thanks Badger, I didn't read the article, jsut saw the headline.

As far as I'm aware, if Greece defaults then it could start a chain reaction which would cause all sorts of bad things to happen to EU countries including Spain. Not sure of the mechanics of it all though.

Two people died - they where in the bank that was fire bombed.

Two ordinary people just going about their business. God bless them.

There are three dead now.

That's someone's son or daughter, Mum or Dad not coming home.

Over money.

Agree expat.

they have reported here in Greece that one of the women (it was two women and a man) was pregnant that is four murders.

That is so sad to read, Elenio.

I'm sorry this is happening.

From what I understand, having spoken to people who have worked in Greece, the problem boils down to the fact that the Greek Government have massively overspent on the public sector.
It has been common for civil servants to get bonuses twice a year along with large annual pay-rises. Also many people have jobs in both the public and private sector and just don't bother to turn up for the public sector job as they know they'll still get paid! I read one case in the paper of a man who admitted that he hadn't turned up for work for 10 years but was still getting paid!

Add to this all the backhanders and bribes that are dished out and it all adds up to a very corrupt society.

The people are rioting because they don't see why THEY should have to take a pay-cut and see cuts to public services when it is down to Government mismanagement.
I don't know if the politicians have themselves taken a pay-cut, it may help to appease some people.

Who else, though? Of course it will be the Greek people who will pay for their governments' spending spree.

They elected those people. And they were the beneficiaries of that spending, although nobody seems to remember that now.

Greeks should stop this puerile tantrum and thank their lucky stars that they are in the Eurozone. If EU didn't have to bail them out, they would be a banana republic in no time.

Oh I agree totally, was just trying to put across the point of view I had been told about.

I know someone who works 2 weeks of every month in Greece and she tells me that it is very common for a school teacher to teach private lessons after school and earn just as much money as they get from their official salary. But of course they do not declare it and pay no tax on it.

There was a young lad from Greece on the news earlier this week who went for his driving test and said that the examiner had told him he wouldn't pass unless he paid him a bribe!

It's surprising it has taken so long for this to happen. This is what happens when you drive through a political driven project without thinking through the consequences of it going wrong.

I am soo glad we are not in the Euro.

But caveman the majority of teachers wages here in Greece are awful. Many work for as little as 450 Euro a month. The education system here is awful. The private lessons are a necessity for most children here as the schools are so bad.
It is not uncommon for children as young as 8 to go to school from 8.30 - 1.30 and then have private lessons all afternoon until 9pm at night.

I live in a tourist area and the teachers from the local school do not get paid for holidays. This means that from June until Sept they are not paid. 2 of the local teachers work in tourist shops during the summer months.

My MIL is a headteacher and is on a salary of 1000 Euros a month.

There is huge corruption here in Greece especially in the public sector and amongst
professionals. However there are a lot of people that work in offices, shops, factories etc who are just trying to survive on their dismal wage.

There has to be a solution that will cut costs in Greece but also ensure that people will be able to live.

The Greek people need to realize that huge changes have to be made and that the corruption and stealing needs to stop. The government needs to find a way to do this without hitting the poorest.

Government needs to downsize is what it needs to do.

Public sector in Greece is 40% of GDP

There should be a wave of privatization, which will fill the treasury's coffers AND get the economy rolling.

I hope so CoteDAzur.....guess we have to just wait and see.

Agree with Coted'azur. Plus some people need to start actually paying tax on the money they have - cut the tax dodges that happen. I know people who've not paid proper taxes. This is a problem & needs fixing.

Riven - I'm guessing it's because there are so many people working for the state.

It's a common affliction in welfare states - Loads of people employed in every state company and nobody ever fired. Result is huge bureaucracy, lifetime employment, low productivity, sluggish economy.

Privatization is the answer.

I agree with you re tax. That teachers are paid crap in their state jobs is no excuse for tax evasion on their private lessons.

It's those who earn alot who seem to get away with not declaring income. The poorest always suffer.

It goes back to immediate post-communist times when the public sector was greatly expanded partly as a means of keeping the population satisfied (by offering jobs) and therefore securing support for the 'capitalist' system. Greece was a country always prone to seasonal work and chronic underemployment. I think the public sector is a large part of GDP even with crap salaries simply because so many are employed by it.

The public pension scandals (ie where spinster daughter inherits police pension) also lead to overspending but it should be remembered that, like other southern European countries, unemployment benefits, particularly if you have never worked, can be almost non-existent. Greeks would think that our system of paying 'benefits' to eg unemployed youths living at home with their parents was extremely wasteful. There a whole extended family might survive on say one wage and grandad's pension. Similarly you would be unlikely to find large numbers of single parent families in social housing. I'm not judging either system, simply saying that they are different.

They need to stop the 13th and 14th month payments as well.

The other problem(and I never thought I'd be typing this) is that their military is huge. Dh had a Greek boss who got promoted to general I think, and was going to be in command of a Greek Island. This is all an overspill from the Greece/Turkey situation and the fact I think they still consider themselves at war with Turkey re: Cyprus.

Generals cost a lot.