MoD to compensate female soldier for discrimination

[BetsyBoop]

HERE

Not sure what I think about this one

My (unanswered) questions are

If she was offered an alternative job, (which would have presumably been one with more regular hours & therefore making childcare easier to arrange) what were her reasons for not taking it?

What is the child's father doing to help raise & support her?

She was a single parent but a relative looked after her child in the Caribbean when she got the job/transferred to the UK. She 'changed her mind about this arrangement' and brought her child to England subsequently.

I think the Tribunal ruling is barking.

If she planned to bring a family member over for the childcare she should also have checked that they could legally live here.

In my view she should have been dismissed for being unable to fulfill her contract.

The military is not a 9 to 5 office job - that's what she got the X factor for.

What seems clear is that the Army's position actually seems to be that being a parent (regardless of relationship status) and being in the Army is incompatible because they will give you zero leeway to look after your children even wrt minor duties and unfortunate childcare hiccups. Therefore being a soldier has to come ahead of being a parent.

And that is exactly what you sign up for. You are paid 24/7 and expected to be on call 24/7. Being a member of HM Forces comes ahead of being a spouse, let alone a parent. The Forces do what they can when they can, but they are not set up to be family friendly organisations; they are military and can be deployed at a moment's notice. Therefore all your shit needs to be in one sock ALL the time.

As WetAugust says, that's what x factor is for. The woman, according to the Telegraph had also been applying for civilian jobs in Afghanistan. How would she have dealt with the child care then? She had been offered a 5 year posting at Blandford from what I read. I would have given my eye teeth for dh to be offered a 5 year posting for the stability that brings. She was bloody silly to turn it down imo.

She should not be compensated. It was not constructive dismissal. She knew the terms and conditions, she signed up, and took the money - that meant she should do the job.

'So partners of soldiers have to expect to shoulder all of the burden, all of the time, regardless of impact on them and their careers etc. I'm so glad I've not married someone in the forces!'' Yep, that's what we do, but he is the one who earns the most, so that's the way it is.

The hearing is still going on, so she may not get anything, or anything near that amount.

Well said, scary!

My husband's job comes before me and our children at times and that's the reality of Forces life. Certainly the Army (as that's the brach of the Forces he's in) does try, where possible, to accomodate family circumstances but they make it clear that it is up to the soldier to sort out their own childcare and support.

I'd be furious if she gets the amount for which she's asking - especially with the Defence budget as stretched as it is.

She knew what she was doing when she signed up - therefore she should have got everything squared away and not relied on the Army to do it for her.

It's interesting that we don't seem to hear what she did with her Families/Welfare officer and what other forms of support she looked for. My DH is in the Signal regiment and they are one of the most flexible and modern regiments or at least seem to be compared to many of our friends in the Army.

I have found the Unit Welfare officer to be outstanding in support and families are always put first, the saying being if the family is happy then the soldier will be at his/her most effective. We know of one husband who has been widowed and the Counsellor went out of her way to find Nursery/Childminder/Au pair help...it's up to you to find childcare I know but they are incredibly helpful. Also Army single parents are top of the list for all childcare in this area, followed by two army parents working and then one army one civvie...Also i have to say there's no network like army wives, they are happy to look after your kids, I have two today whose dad's are in Afghan and i know I can rely on them to come through for me when the going gets tough.

I don't understand why this family member couldn't have been brought over, but she could have arranged an au pair or live in...they aren't that expensive considering her army house would only cost her around £100 a month (including water rates, council tax etc)and a corporal's salary would have been around £28k. She could easily have managed, and surely the father of her child should have stepped in.

It's unfortunate, I had to stop work last year,and I know many army wives with excellent careers on hold until their husbands come out, but the world doesn't owe you a living, we also don't know how many other times she may have let the regiment down? Much as I tried to resist, the Army is a way of life and not just a career, they will support you as much as they can, but there comes a point where you need to just do the job and be relied upon. It's harsh but you need to have the personality to just get on and do the job. If she was at her wits end, she could have gone to the Military doctor and gotten signed off for stress until she had sorted herself out. Her Families officer would have fully supported her....this is what I find so strange.

I would have thought her SFA would have cost more than that?

I had to leave the army due to the same reason back in '01. My trade was a Port op in Marchwood (loading ships). We were often called at a moments notice to work night shifts, from 7pm to 7am, or go on tour/excersise at a moments notice - not a chance in hell of getting childcare in these circumstances. It's a ball ache. I did get married to exh, who was also in the same regiment, but it didn't make any difference as we were in the same troop and were required to do the same duties at the same time.

Would never have thought to sue the army for it though. I knew the score before I got pregnant, as does everyone who signs up.

Don't think so Scaryteacher - ours is £190 for a Grade 3 four bedroom house.

I read a little more on this - she is quoted as saying:

The former corporal, whose daughter is now four, told the Central London Employment Tribunal that British soldiers could rely on their families for childcare, but her relatives were all on her home island of St Vincent, where she was recruited.

Not much to base a case on, we have no extended family, my son has no Grandparents and my brother has a family 500 miles away, it's up to you to organise whatever childcare you can, when I worked we had to have back up and double back up, the army mums I know have an au pair - it's the only way. It also stated that her sister could have come over but for only six months at a time - what's the problem with that? if she really needed her in the last year why didn't she come over for as long as she could?

She couldn't have made this work, something has to give, in our case it had to be my career, much as i would like to say we are entitled to the world and more, it just doesn't work out this way. She was lucky to be offered an alternative post in Blandford with childcare, I was offered to continue my 60 hour week and 140 mile commute or to hit the high road.....I would have bitten their hand off for a chance to continue working, even if it meant putting my current dreams on hold for a little while.

Ours is £750, incl o/seas fuel and light. Our CILOCT equates to the Band E charge on our house in Cornwall.

We had the same problem - our families hours away. I worked and did the child care, dh went to sea or was posted away. If ds was ill, I took the day off as leave, dh couldn't.

Gosh that's high, are you in CO housing? I'm quoting all ranks here lol!Even the grade 1 4 bed Townhouses here in Tidworth are only £450 a month and they are really modern/nice.

My husband knows of another female corporal who has sued the army twice over this...I can't really believe it.

I was in the same boat as you Scaryteacher, while I carried on my career I had to consider myself a single mum in all respects, I couldn't rely on my husband for any childcare aspects on a regular basis, I had to sort it all out myself and certainly couldn't have sued my company for not being able to carry out a job I had signed a contract for.....

lol @ jscot - "squared away" - no doubting you are an army wife too lol....

SSFA in Brussels - dh Cdr RN (Lt-Col is Army equivalent). That £750 includes garage rent, fuel and light, CILOCT, house rent. I think we are in a Grade 2 according to his pay slip.

"lol @ jscot - "squared away" - no doubting you are an army wife too lol..."

The slang does give it away, doesn't it?

Like other Forces families, we've opted to do the (fornightly) commute. My husband's family take little interest in us and wouldn't be in much of a position to help as they're getting on quite a bit and have various health issues. My family are based in Scotland and my father is disabled. So, when children appeared on the scene, we bought a house near my parents and I get support and help from them. In return, I can help my mother with my father and our two sons have a great relationship with their extended family.

When I was pregnant with our second child, my husband was in company command and very busy. I had to spend seven weeks in hospital before the birth and there is no way we'd have managed that without my mother's help - our eldest went to stay with her for the duration. The Army were sympathetic but they would not have given my husband that amount of time off to look after our eldest full-time.

The job is what it is - expecting the Armed Forces to change it's attitude just because we have offspring is manifestly stupid. There is sympathy and understanding that from time to time we might be in awkward situations regarding childcare, but beyond that we sort it out ourselves - just like every other working family.

I fail to see that this woman has any sort of case.

Ah Scaryteacher - it's cheaper if you are in all ranks housing (privates through to SNCO's),although of course smaller and lower standard. I was gutted to find out at a dinner party tonight that friends pay £75/month for a 3 bed grade 4 and garage in a nicer village than ours!

The lady in question could have easily afforded some decent childcare, I have heard that the MOD will subsidise nannies too.I can't help getting the feeling she was just not flexible enough to do the job.

This is the first time I've lived in SFA since I was 8, as we always had our own place, so I have no idea how much MQs cost.

I think the MoD subsidise squat. Never heard of them subsidising nannies...may be not for the RN then!

I can't see why she wouldn't take the Blandford job...5 years stability and knowing that you aren't going to have to look at unpicking your life and moving/more weekending again would be bliss. No more for us though. Dh approaching beginning of last appointment, and then retires in just under 4 years. Hoping for an extension though.

It was something my husband's colleagues brought up last night over dinner, not sure if it is all services but they had heard of a widower recruiting a nanny and receiving help. I know they will give you an extra room in MQ's etc for a carer.

Also forgetting she would be entitled to working tax credits, tax credits and child benefit, I'm sure she would have coped financially.

I would love my dh to have been offered the Blandford job! Maybe I should have moved out and let him become a single dad. Then he could have worked child friendly hours and I could have continued with my job as a buyer!

DH is on continuance at the mo, 5 years, I asked if he'd stay on and now he has to go to Afghanistan in Jan, so now have the extra guilt of sending dh to war when he should have been retired on the golf course.

But that's a whole other topic......

The guy I know who was widowed had to rely on family for help and ended up sending both his kids to board as he could not have them home and continue with his sea going career. It's hard.

gosh that's harsh, losing your wife and then losing the contact with your kids...not an easy decision.

New reports suggest that when she applied for familiy members to come over she was denied as she had asked for family members not just one - had she have then reapplied for just one she may have been successful. Furthermore one of the family members was her step-sister (no blood relations) and members of step-sisters family so immigration looked on them as 'no relation'

Plus the reporting seems to suggest that she was late for one parade. Cant have been the case. She would have had to be AGAI'd first (kind of like a minor charge), then when she did it again she would have been placed on a 3 month written report. She would have offended again during the 3 month period and at the end of the period either placed on a further 3 month report, or administratively discharged as "unable to fulfill unrestricted military duties"

If she really wanted a full 22 yr career she should have gone to Blandford - they fact that she didnt makes me feel she was only ever in it for the money and that makes me

I can just imagine the response if dh hadn't turned up for Divisions, or when the boat was sailing, or to chair a board. Interview without coffee methinks.

I don't see that this is either sexual or racial discrimination, as it would have been exactly the same for any male soldier. I don't see that the MoD has any case to answer. The military is a fighting machine, not a creche.

damn - can't cut and paste. update on case in Telegraph and elsewhere. Basically, awarded £17k. Fault on the army for inequal treatment between UK and non-UK soldiers, but fault on her for not moving to Blandford if actually committed to army and not properly trying to seek work (and so minimise losses) in the outside world.

How is it unequal treatment? A UK serviceman who did not turn up for work would have been trooped as well.