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News

Latest twist in the MP's expense saga

24 replies

ShadeofViolet · 12/04/2010 16:51

here

Do they want the public to hate them even more?

OP posts:
AMumInScotland · 12/04/2010 17:14

Greedy bloaters!

WhereYouLeftIt · 12/04/2010 17:41

How is this even possible? I thought Legal Aid was only for the very poor.

herbietea · 12/04/2010 18:13

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WebDude · 12/04/2010 18:17

OMG - and to think that if someone is accused of piracy under the recent Digital Economy Act, they have to fund any appeal after action has already been taken against them (such as having internet connection stopped).

Not innocent until proved but guilty until appeal carried out, and no legal aid possible.

WebDude · 12/04/2010 18:32

Sorry to read that, herbietea. My example pales into insignificance against a medical issue that wrecks a person's future (an ex neighbour went into a coma following keyhole surgery, and during that, she had a stroke or two so is no longer able to climb stairs, and even stringing words together into sentences leaves her so strained she cannot talk on the phone.

Wiped out her career in social services where she had been looking to get promotion. Also meant she missed seeing the eclipse of the sun with her (then) 3yo who, straight after, was far too boisterous for her to be able to cope with - he could just knock her over as she was affected so much. Now using a wheelchair when out shopping or going anywhere, and I bet she's fuming about it all, deep down.

Alambil · 12/04/2010 22:10

am SO angry about this.

Theiving bastards.

Meglet · 12/04/2010 22:12

Not much annoys me but this has

gaelicsheep · 12/04/2010 22:16

This is outrageous. I now understand, as HerbieTea says, that it's because they could (in theory) go to prison, but who cares, quite frankly. They brought it on themselves. Any normal person is denied legal aid for much more worthy causes, as we can see on this thread.

jkklpu · 12/04/2010 22:18

Couldn't happen in Scotland as there's always been a means-tested element in legal aid decisions. Gross.

sanfairyann · 12/04/2010 22:20

why should they not claim legal aid? or should we have some law where only people we approve of and who we think are innocent get to claim legal aid and those who we don't like and don't think are innocent should be ashamed of themselves and not get legal aid? this is all a political witch hunt of a few individuals to distract from the rest

AuraofDora · 12/04/2010 22:21

greedy bloaters just sums it up
there should have been many more standing trial for this..and war crimes, lest we forget they are international criminals

Alambil · 12/04/2010 23:53

it's got nothing to do with innocence and all to do with affording it.

gaelicsheep · 12/04/2010 23:55

I think it is utterly beyond belief that they would even think about claiming legal aid for this. Whether they are allowed to is another matter. Where is their integrity? (I think we all know the answer to that one).

Dollytwat · 13/04/2010 00:05

This makes me really angry, I have to pay for my legal fees when my exh takes me to court over access to the DC's. He's abusive, he terrifies them and they don't want to see him. However I have to go to court and defend myself and my decision to stop contact, and I have to pay for it.

He is on legal aid because he gave his job up to avoid paying CSA and legal fees.

So if MP's can get legal aid, why can't I?

I'm protecting my children, they are protecting their wallets

Granny23 · 13/04/2010 00:18

Has this gone forward today because with Parliament now closed they are no longer MPs and therefore can claim to have no income? Will they be getting the £60,000 golden handshake for stepping down? I suppose that the least of their worries is that the party which raised them to this position is currently fighting a knife edge election and will undoubtedly suffer as a result of their blatant greed.

I have actually met one of these !##!* as he used to live and work nearby and was amazed when he was selected and then elected. I will say no more in a public forum as he would probably get legal aid to sue me and I could end up bankrupt.

StewieGriffinsMom · 13/04/2010 09:24

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Granny23 · 13/04/2010 11:31

SGM - Thanks for that.

WebDude · 13/04/2010 12:55

Granny - the decision was made on Friday, apparently, but I assume the application had been made several days or even weeks beforehand.

From what I heard on radio, the decision isn't taken within the political sphere (now there's a change) so there's no involvement or sanction possible from Parliament (even if it had not been dissolved).

It does seem one of the mostly badly timed announcements for Labour and I didn't notice any criticism coming from that camp (there may have been some but yesterday night the reporting was of the opposition leaders' comments).

.........

SFA - don't think it's a question of 'us' approving on basis of innocence or not, but on a case by case basis and a question of 'means'.

Examples of not being eligible for legal aid are plentiful and seem all the more unjust when you find out that these ex-MPs are able to obtain it.

It might be because of the possible penalty (inc prison) but there has been a continuous erosion of "fairness" when it comes to courts, and more claims are being forced to use arbitration (where claimant loses 20% as fee for arbitration, unlike court case where they get the amount owed in full, and costs can be forced onto guilty party).

BadgersPaws · 13/04/2010 13:28

"It might be because of the possible penalty (inc prison)"

That's my understanding of it, that because the punishment could be prison legal aid kicks in.

atlantis · 13/04/2010 13:37

"That's my understanding of it, that because the punishment could be prison legal aid kicks in. "

Well I still don't see how the possibility of going to prison means a person who can afford to pay for legal assistance doesn't need too, and if they get legal aid does that mean that they have to go with a lowly legal team or are the tax payers still going to finance some high flying legal firm who charge untold more than joe bloogs barristers?

Am spitting nails as I had to self rep like Dolly above against my ex H's legal team of solicitors and barristers because I earned too much to get legal aid but he wasn't working so he got it.

Disgraceful. Hopefully they will take their houses (that we paid for) after the trial as compensation as they did with the terrorist.

WebDude · 13/04/2010 14:28

perhaps "kicks in" was the wrong term - I don't have a transcript of the news, and have not researched exactly what criteria makes one eligible, but certainly they mentioned the possibility of prison as being one reason for getting legal aid considered (so I don't think they were implying it was automatic, even if what I wrote suggests it).

Unfortunately the tax payer looks likely to be stung for the costs of top legal teams.

As for being able to pay and whether going to prison is justification, then (a) yes, I agree on them probably being able to pay, though don't know if it would be easy, or (if they were not an MP) that there would be as much public interest as to whether someone else could apply, on the grounds that to pay for their costs, the family home would probably need to be sold....

But (b) while I personally don't think that the possible sentence should make a difference, I am slightly pleased that those facing the most serious penalties are safeguarded from being unable to get suitable legal representation.

It was probably given close scrutiny when the guidelines on granting legal aid were last reviewed.

I feel for you, honestly, atlantis, that you are penalised because of earnings, and don't make any claim that this is fair. Indeed when Clive Anderson and various legal people discussed this some while ago on R4, there was a wide mix of views, so I think it is fair to say some in the legal profession hate the system as it is at present, too.

WebDude · 13/04/2010 14:33

sorry, now see BP wrote kicks in... might well have been something I'd have also written...

Rockbird · 13/04/2010 15:02

Greedy bloaters. I'm liking that a lot. I've met Morley (long ago) and that suits him a lot

BadgersPaws · 13/04/2010 17:11

Having had a very quick hunt around it does seem that because it's a criminal legal case legal aid is not means tested. As Atlantis appears to have already discovered for civil cases (such as custody) legal aid is already means tested. Means testing will be extended to criminal cases in June.

However at present when a criminal case ends the trial judge can order that the defendant repays part or all of the legal aid that they received. That's what happened to Abu Hamza, he got aid in his trail, was found guilty and the judge ordered him to pay it back. In the end his house was confiscated.

So just because these MPs have been given legal aid doesn't close the door to them being ordered to pay it back.

In the end we want these MPs to face the law but the law also requires that they be given legal aid. We can't deplore their demands to ignore the law while at the same time demanding the law ignore them

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