UNBELIEVABLE sexism from the editor of the Today programme

[squeaver]

women don't have a thick enough skin to present the Today programme, it seems

It would be interesting to read the whole interview, because the actual quotes given, when shorn of the journalist's surrounding words, support aranea's reading - he was saying that there are not enough women in broadcasting, they are bringing in new ones, but the new journalists won't be presenting Today until they are ready.

"But what you can't expect is that the Today programme is the first place you'll see those changes because it's just too tough an environment for novices [not women], frankly."

And further down where he says about the 'thickness of the hide' it was when he was asked why 'more women' were appearing on BBC News and not Today - I think he was talking specifically about those new women journalists, who are ready for BBC News but not yet ready for Today's tougher environment.

Those quotes seem to have been very skilfully presented to suit the journalist's agenda.

I listen to 5Live in the mornings anyway, and Shelagh Fogarty can (and often does) eat Nicky Campbell for breakfast....

Rusty, I heard the interview when it was broadcast and no, he has not been misinterpreted. He really is a sexist dinosaur who thinks women are inferior to men AND that there is nothing wrong in saying that loud and proud.

The notion that female journalists are all juniors, that there simply are no experienced, talented women, is a. nonsense and b. clearly sexist. Imagine him saying that about ethnic minority journalists. Or gay, or disabled...

It's not exactly fucking bricklaying, and even so, I saw an old lady of eighty on the local news who'd just learnt this. So bollocks to them. If the job is hard for women, it's because the newsroom is full of sexists.

I'm with Aranea on this one. It was a clumsy thing to say, but I do not think that the man deserves pilloring for it.

Much more fun to call "sexism!" and start a witchhunt though...

i kind of enjoy it when men try and come out with this 'we know best' claptrap. dh insisted to me that women can't work on submarines then just lately the navy announced that they would be. he he

Spot on dittany - Humphries (along with the ever-vile Rod Liddle) is the #1 exemplar of the sort of self-righteous, bombastic journalism that should be consigned to the dustbin of the last century.

Presenters like Evan Davis and Sarah Montague are the new breed - clever, tough, persistent, but they don't think it's all about them ...

I thought what Arnanea thinks too. Women are not given the same opportunities as men, and thus the pool of women with the the right experience is very small. Add onto this the fact that women in the 20's are generally employed solely for their looks and not their wit or intelligence, you can kind of see the problem.

I don't think blaming editor man is relevant. The problem is systemic

Come off it. There are just as many talented female journalists as male. There are just as many senior experienced women journalists. There is no shortage of women who are just as capable as men of working on Today. There have been female presenters of Today in the past, FFS.

twat.

Edam - ARE there just as many senior experienced women journalists? I don't even know how many women/men journalists or senior journalists there ARE.

Well we all know why Kate Adie, Anna Ford etc were left out in the cold.

They got past the age of 35 yrs and were deemed no longer shaggable so they had to go. Men, however, only improve with age.

If John Sergeant had been a woman he wouldn't have been allowed to present/report the news at all.

I actually feel offended that this story seems to be reinforcing my belief that the BBC appoints young female presenters on the basis of looks, then pigeon holes them in a looks-based career. If they didn't care about female looks (which seems to be the approach to appointing men) but selected them on journalistic ability / potential instead, then their career might progress to the more hard news type interviews more effectively. As opposed to progressing to presenting Strictly Come Dancing.

The BBC definitely seems to have different criteria for selecting men and women right from the start of their careers, and I do believe we have the right to demand different behaviour from them.

Ooh hope to see those of you in agreement with the thread title over at the Feminism/women's rights topic!

I have started a topic there called sexist language in the mainstream media and also commented on the Today progam editor.

Please can I encourage you to register your disdain for these attitudes and comments at the BBC Radio 4 Feedback page.

IMO it is only when we complain/campaign about these things that we get anywhere.

Good article by Zoe Williams on this

I shall meander over to your thread tabouleh

Aranea, RustyBear & Amber - at first I agreed with you having read this: "But what you can't expect is that the Today programme is the first place you'll see those changes because it's just too tough an environment for novices, frankly." But then my bullshitometer clicked on and I realised (as other posters have said) that there are countless female journos and correspondents, and if they are "not been well represented at the top" that's not really a reason for not giving them a job at the top is it? If the editor of Today can't give out "top jobs" then who can, FGS?

And THEN I read this bit, which is where the headline was drawn from:
"Asked why more women were being seen on the BBC News channel but not heard on Today, Thomas said: "Because I think those are slightly easier jobs. They are difficult jobs but the skillset that you need to work on the Today programme and the hide that you need, the thickness of that, is something else. It's an incredibly difficult place to work."

He's clearly giving the reason for a lack of women on Today as because women can only do "easier jobs". Bollocks indeed.

It's like the whole Martha Kearney vs Nick Robinson debate for political editor again. MK seen as a better journalistic choice but they went with NR because he was a bit more 'one of the boys' in the Westminster club. Can't stand the man, think Martha a much better journalist. But she was clearly too 'female'.

Getting heartily sick of the fact that female news readers on the BBC now seem to have to "pretty" and with an interest in being a tv presenter rather than focusing on being a journalist/celebrity, e.g. Kate Silverton and tedious interviews with Daily Mail or Fiona Bruce and Antiques Roadshow. Give me the Kirsty Wark/Orla Guerin/Carolyn Quinn career journalist type any day of the week - no weaker than any man. Ain't no reason why Orla couldn't do a cushtie Today job (taxi to office, coffee on tap) after years reporting from the world's war-torn regions is there?

sorry that should have said "interest in being a tv presenter/celebrity rather than journalist", obviously

"he sounded thick and petulant this morning haranguing"

The JH "interview style" is the main reason for me sleeping through Today nowadays (as well as the fools pushing Ed out to make a gap for Justin Webb; Evan Davis filled the gap before JW came back from being the man in America, but struck me as being a bit of a novice when it comes to 'catch them out' questions for politicians).

Evan Davis seems to have got himself a nice number with the "Bottom Line" which only has CEOs and similar, so no doubt there's a great green room environment with nice meals etc. (It goes out on TV as well as radio, where two radio shows it replaced, namely "Shop Talk" and "Nice Work" spoke to people at all levels from management down, and involved union reps from time to time, plus corporate lawyers and others on all aspects of employment, not just how it appears from the Board Room where Evan's interviewees come from.)

JW is most probably kicking himself as the guy there now has "Americana" on Sunday nights, so we hear a lot more from him than we ever did from JW, and the new man gets to travel around for fun.

Ed Stourton got sacked and heard about it when a journo phoned him to ask for a reaction.

Much back tracking and grovelling ensued.

High five to Jennie Bond for saying what she thought.

I complained through your link, thanks tabouleh