Meadows....Should he have been struck off, by Bunglie.

[Bunglie]

I thought that the most useful thing that I could do is to repost my story again. I realise that many of you 'know' my name but you do not know why I was so happy to have my son comwe to stay for example, so he is the first post I ever made on Mumsnet.

By Bunglie on Tuesday, 20 January, 2004 6:30:10 PM

I am a mother of two, 15 years ago I was accused of having Munchausens-Syndrome-By-Proxy. I had to go through a criminal trial at which I was acquitted, with 'No case to answer' and as a result I had my children removed, made wards of court and finally adopted. They were 2 and 3 when they left me, I was given contact that I maintained twice weekly for 2 years and then the court released them for adoption, they were adopted when they were 6 and 7 years old. I was lucky and was granted an 'open' adoption. My son is 18 now but they have new names and I am no longer on their birth ctificates. I have since been proven not to have Munchausens or Munchausen-by proxy. The man who insisted to the social services that I had it was Professor Roy Meadows. He never interviewed me, my doctors or even saw any of my medical records. he wote his report based on an interview with my step-mother and a social worker. I know I was not imprisoned like some poor women as I was acquited, but the wardship hearing is a civil hearing, in private and done on the 'balance of probabilities'. I was naive, I thought I would get my children back and that it was a ghastly mistake. I was wrong. My children are beautiful and I love them, but they have had problems with their adopted parents. Up until a few weeks ago I never told anyone about this as I had been labled and was ashamed and thought that people would believe that I had this illness (I knew nothing about it at the time as it was a new thing). I now know that I am not the only person in this situation. What do I do now, is there anyone I can tell my story to so that I can right this wrong? I hear about the women being released from jail, but what about people like me? Professor Meadows evidence destroyed my life but more importantly he has destroyed my childrens lives. I am glad that it has been shown that he was not correct in a lot of cases but I do not feel vindicated. I do not want revenge or anything I just want someone to know the truth. I would never hurt my children and he made me out to be a liar. I have a very rare illness (only 14 people in the country have it) and at the time it had not been diagnosed, it has now, but for 5 years I could not get any treatment as the doctors thought I had this Munchausen Syndrome. Based on that it was then stated that I must have had Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy as my little girl developed an illness and I was accussed of causing it. She is fine now but at the time I believed in the social services and that they would not take my children away. I think the government, not the General Medical Council should hold an enquirey as to how this man destroyed so many lives for so long. Is there anyone in the same position as me, who can help?

Thanks St George. Was fairly sure she moved. Can still write if that is what you would like us to do Bunglie.

I found a letter written by Aloha to her MP. I think it is clear, succinct and to the point! IHTH

(Sorry Aloha for posting this without asking you?)

Aloha wrote something like:

Dear Ms Harman

I am a constituent of yours, and have been following the news about mothers falsely accused of murdering their children after being diagnosed with Munchhausen's Syndrome By Proxy. I strongly believe that the misguided evidence of Roy Meadows has led to thousands of miscarriages of justice, whereby mothers have been jailed or had their children unjustly taken from them. I hope that as my MP and a mother yourself, you will push to see that justice is done for all the families involved, not just those mothers who have been imprisoned. I am particularly concerned about the secrecy surrounding the family court system, which has fuelled those injustices. Women have been forbidden to discuss what has happened to them with their own families, and even with psychologists, despite their own desperate need for help. I hope you will agree that this is wrong, and that the principle of open justice must be restored with the decisions of the family courts open to scrutiny and appeal.
I enclose a message that was recently posted on an internet site for mothers (that was a version of Bunglie's posting - not the whole thread and not with Mumsnet identified, just in case). I hope you will read it and agree with me that this sort of thing must not happen again.

With best wishes

WWW, Unfortunately I chose a name that is part of an email address that they had and they googled it with MSbP or Roy Meadows, either way you come up with mumsnet discussions.

Thanks St Geaorge. Does anyone know her 'track record'?

Ok I am ready to answer your post now Frogs and thanks for writing.

Roy Meadows was a mere peadiatrician at St James Hospital Leeds. He was friends with the consultant who was looking after my daughter, he suggested to the consultant that I had MSbP and this was the cause of my dd illness and the result was that I was arrested. No covert videoing or anything, just a phonecall from Roy Meadows to my dd's consultant, honestly and that was sufficient for the police to be called, I was arrested along with my husband. My Children were made Wards of the Court. (I believe that soon after my case was heard wardships were stopped.)
The local SS dept who were the plaintiffs in the Civil proceedings, the Wardship case, called Meadows as their expert witness and paid for him to travel down south to speak to the foster parents, who I had never met, and my step-mother. He said that to talk to me would only 'cloud the picture as MSbP sufferers will lie, and maniopulate' He could therefore see no useful reason to talk to me or any doctor who had treated me or looked at my medical notes. It was on this basis that the GMC said that I had a case against him.

I hope this makes sense to you Frogs?

I need to go and cheer myself up as I have made myself feel a bit down...so I am off to the garden centre....I fancy buying one of those giant flesh-eating Pitcher plants to put Meadows in

It makes sense to me, Bunglie, though I confess I have difficulty getting my head round it, as it seems so completely out of line with anything resembling normal professional judgement.

But if the GMC felt you had a case against him, then I would have thought there would still be a case to answer outside the remit of the GMC. Anyone who gives evidence in Court commits themselves to telling the truth to the best of their ability. Sure, experts are entitled to give opinions, but that opinion has to be based on established scientific principles, otherwise it's not 'expert' evidence.

I hope you and others in your position have some very good lawyers helping you get some kind of justice.

you poor thing bunglie missing out on your children for some docs mistake.

I have read on another thread that you have contact now with ds and I send all my love to you and hope all is well.

In answer to your question hun I aint entirely sure but keep us posted and all the best

So what can we do to help, Bunglie? Is there anyone else other than our MPs we can write to, and is there anything particular that we need to say that might make people sit up and take notice? Is there any way that cases like yours can be publicised without gagging orders being breached?

Bungle

I followed your story about your son coming to stay but didnt know the history.

Its moved me to tears - if there is anything i can do to help please let me know.

Its not much but my mother-in-law is our local counseller and spends alot of time in the council house and stuff and meets with MPs, i dont know much about it so i dont know if she's able to help in anyway?

Shes in birmingham

(((((((hugs))))))))

huggy xxx

Right, Ive just managed to speak to my MP's office in Westminster. He has arranged for MP's secretary to call me to make an appointment to see MP at which point I can go through all the points that I wish to raise with her on your behalf Bunglie. I explained I didnt know where you lived but did say for all I know you could be one of her constituents! . One question he did ask was how long has RM been diagnosing MSbP in teh Courts as an expert. He thinks from 15 years ago you may have been one of the first cases but maybe you could confirm?

If there is a draft of exactly what we can cut and paste to our own MPs will that work?

Or should they be slightly different?

Did you buy a knome as well this afternoon.???

Oh Bunglie - I've only just read your first post. This is dreadful and it is so wrong that where cases have been disproved there is no redress.

Roy Meadow was someone I knew of from my nursing days. At the time I knew of him MBP was a newly coined phrase and I think this man began to believe his own hype - the "God" syndrome if you like - all wrong and it's quite right he was struck off - you cannot become that blase and that definite about people you've never met. As it happens I do believe that MBP exists but not nearly the numbers that he has suggested. In addition I believe that the people who suffer from this do not belong in prison and never did.
Roy Meadow's mistakes means the innocent are now out of prison but I'm sure there are some who are not innocent. Even so, they've had no help in prison, no medical or psychiatric care and have been released without support that they may well want and need - all due to Roy Meadow criminalising a rare psychiatric illness and extrapolating the findings to an entire population.
Can you go to the newspapers or the tv companies - this is very current right now and surely somebody would want to hear your experiences.

I remember your posting, and it still moved me today. It was so good to hear that you were having your son to stay, and that you got on.
Please keep us posted and let us know what we could do to help.

Aragon - Bunglie has a gagging order on her, and both she and any journalist who published an interview with her would be prosecuted.

Yes, it's right that he has been struck off, but it also means that women like Bunglie can now not get the justice they have been fighting for.

Bunglie, Sorry, I only just got around to reading this thread. This is such an awful tragedy for you and your family. I'll be writing to my MP and so will my dp and everyone else I can get involved. I'll also be doing my best, in my own little way, to challenge the pervasive misogyny that makes this kind of thing possible. Take care and good luck. x

Bunglie.
Can you email me your addy? I am involved with some other mothers who have been accused of having MSBP and think they will be able to help you.
The organisation I am involved with has lots of info that I think may be of use to you.

There was a wonderful young mother called Debbie Storey who had a unconfirmed diagnosis of aspergers syndrome. Her children both had this condition, yet no professional in her area would acknowledge what she said because they labelled her as having MSBP and therefore her children received no support.

Sadly Debbie died two months ago with an incurable cancer....no one believed her complaints of aches and pains because of the label of MSBP that had wrongly been given to her.

I can get access to loads of reports that prove there is no such condition as MSBP as well as access to others who have been wrongly labelled.

I have read your posts about your son and the wonderful night you spent with him.....as an adoptive mother it made me even more aware just how very grateful I am to our boys birth mother for giving me the chance to be a Mum.

I sincerly pray that when the day comes for my boys to meet their birth mother, that they are greeted with as much love and affection.

You can contact me if you want at
my mums net user name at yahoo dot co dot uk

F4J groups managed a way around this gagging from the family courts by being silhouetted in the tv studio and not mentioning case specifics or names. Would this be possible for these cases?

cant get to see MP until 3rd September so have booked an appointment for then but had a v lengthy discussion with her secretary who is in full support

Thank you all so very much for all of your nice posts. Your support in this way means a lot to me. I feel that I have a lot to tell but am a bit fearful of the AP's reading it. But other things I am sure that I can tell you but will you please give me until tomorrow as I am feeling a bit 'delicate' today! Yesterday I went to the garden centre to 'cheer myself up'. Spending money always works!! The problem came when the pharmacy delivered to me a new drug which had been prescribed by my Hosp. consultant. I took 5 mls as the instructions said and I did not wake up until 2.40pm!! and I feel as if I have the hangover of all hangovers at the moment. (I know you lot will want to know what this stuff was called....well am I right? It is called Oxynorm concentrate 10mg/1ml, now don't you feel better for knowing that?) Sorry about the sarcasm but I really do feel as if I had a night out and I didn't honestly!.
I will log on tomorrow and I will be in a better frame of mind I hope. However thank you again all of you and especially you Jampots for actually going to see your MP, I am overwhelmed.

Monkeytrousers, yes you are correct there are a few parents, the same ones each time who have the courage to speak out, but have their backs to the camera and voices disguised. However, if you think about it as a viewer you would not really want to watch this for very long and not many 'serious' journalists are willing to tell your story as they risk imprisonment. It really does seem that MSbP is a 'hot potato' and too hot to handle at the moment. Let us hope that things will change.

As I said I will be back with some news again either tomorrow or Sunday....so hold onto your hats ladies, and men!

Hope you feel better soon, Bunglie.

Oke doke Bunglie

Hope to hear from you soon

bunglie, Ive just read this too, and am completely shocked. What a nightmare for you and your family, all because of such a horrid arrogant little man, whose name is now synonymous with bad medical practice. I had no idea that his victims were so numerous.

It is so incredible that there can be no redress under law.