Did anyone read this article in The Times yesterday on the London bombings?

[oliveoil]

I think it is spot on, what do you think? It's a bit long.

here it is

Hmm not so sure I'm as unconvinced about this silence as I was originally. I do think there's a danger of diluting the original purpose of a minute's silence, but it was quite moving.

Willow2 - I think you have summed it up very well.

I frequently think that the coverage of disasters in other countries is under-reported, and in a way that is less 'tragic' than a disaster here,
But there is a difference between feelings about needless loss of life, wherever it may occur, and people feeling scared that it is or may be happening to them, here and now. Two different things are happening in London - sadness for those who are victims (of all sorts), and separately, a recognition that we feel vulnerable, shocked, it is hapening on our routes to work, every one knows someone who could have been in thhose carriages - and yet we must and will carry on with our lives.

They are different things. I think they are getting mixed up in discussions on London-centricity, etc etc.

We did the slience, and although I wouldn't normally think it was my kind of thing, I'm glad we did.
It's a new sort of ritual and one that everyone can share in. In the old days everyone would have gathered in the church (or religious centre of their culture) and shared their reactions. But we have so few ways to publicly share things on an equal level, and I don't think observing a silence together undermines it's currency any more than the facat that funerals or weddings are a common and frequent ceremony.

it did give me a feeling ofd 'we'll get through this'.

The people who organised this attack are guilty. They were all of age and it is pointless to try to place the blame on anyone lese. If you strap a bomb to yourself and detonate it in a public place I guess you have realy made up your mind tp be a mass killer.

The avaerage muslim is as horrified as everyone else in the UK about this, but the following link shows the evil that debased, fanatical men can say

\link[http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050110-082616-6312r.htm\extremist statemsnts}

It is people like this who need to be stopped from spouting they vile hatered and if possible deported from the uk.

extremist statemsnts

Blu I think you're right about the reason for silence becoming the way people express their feelings publicly about tragedies. There simply isn't any other communal outlet anymore.

HMB - What a nice chap

Windermere - thank you.

I agree that the coverage of disasters in other countries is under reported at times, but I think you could probably say that of any country - I doubt that the East Timor Express has given over huge amount of column inches to last week's events. People will always focus more on what is happening on their own doorstep.

Have not read this whole thread, but did read most of the article, the style of it, is only one step up from tabloid nonsense.

The article it self had merit, but the style of journalism, let it down badly.

LGJ

i couldn't read the whole thread either, read the first fifteen posts - want to agree with MGR that it is written in a really horrible journalistic style - and want to add that one of the 'pathetic young men' was a special needs teaching assistant up until last year. How does a young man like that, with so much to give society, turn into a suicide bomber? That's the question society has to ask itself.

There was a guy from the Muslim Council on Newsnight last night he was more or less saying the the uks foreign policy eg Iraq, Palestine, America etc is frustrating young Muslims and that is probably the root cause, along with a lack of knowledge of how to communicate that frustration. I do buy this to some extent however I was against the war in Iraq, I am angry many of our policy decisions as I am sure are many other people in this country - but the real issue is why some people take this further?......So really i am saying the same as Ruty and I have no idea what the answer is!

Was chatting with a friend yesterday and said, "hmm...wonder how long it will be before someone starts blaming their mothers." didn't take long, did it? No matter what men do, it's always a woman's fault - the mother, the wife. Even with Harold Shipman the press blamed first his mother (for daring to die of cancer!) and then his wife (for being married to him). It makes my blood boil.
Agree this was very important and terrifying development - the arrival of suicide bombers to Britain. It is a huge story and we have the right to know exactly what happened IMO.
But also do - sorry - agree that the media is London-centric (and I say this as a lifelong London-based hack). I can't remember who said it but one columnist said the other day that people from other parts of the country had a duty to come and 'stand side by side with us on the tube'. And I though, oh f* off, like you headed to Lockerbie to stand side by side in the fields.
Personally dislike all the silences except the armistice one. But that's just me and applies to all silences, not specific to the London bombings. And no, I didn't weep and wail about Princess Diana - was revolted by the whole business.

very interesting article by Johan Hari in The Times or Independent about suicide bombers, which did sort of 'blame' the west for the rise of fundamentalism, but because it actually supported tyrants and crushed emerging arab democratic movements because the US in particular was more interested in 'stability' than democracy - a policy they have only revised in the last month or so! Generations of true reformers were lost, leaving the field clear to extremists. He also points out that it's folly to say, oh, if we only were nice to them they'd stop bombing. He said they have nothing in common with our ideals. They want to impose a 9th century moral code by force, think that all other religions (and none) should be banned and those who disagree killed, and that, amoung other things, Spain should be returned as Muslim territory. There is no middle ground!

what a mad idea, that people should flock into an already unbearably overcrowded underground just to stand side by side with Londoners! After they've stood side by side with them, I suppose they're expected to go around walking with a purpose. And then what? Go home? Strewth!

Yes, I did think aaargh - the last thing we need in London is more people on the tube. Can't remember who wrote it now which is annoying.

Agree - very silly rhetoric! Good grief!

Don't get me wrong - do think this is a development of utmost importance. My cleaning lady is very worried about her son who has vanished. It is close to home here.
The suicide bombing of the children in Iraq made me have to wipe my eyes in Superdrug yesterday.
And I loathe, loathe, loathe the fact that people start attacking asylum seekers over stuff like this. Those poor, brave sods have often been through experiences that would kill lesser mortals. Rape, torture, mutilation, the loss of their entire families. It's unspeakable. I feel honoured to be part of a nation that can provide sanctuary for them.

who on earth is Alice Mills, and does she have any relevance to anyone apart from a small number of newspaper reading middle class Britons. I do hope not.

I find this piece irritating and stupid, and likely to annoy, divide and alienate many British people.

With you on this Nightyn. Pile of shite that is just rabble rousing, people who write unsubstantiated nonesense like this simply add to the hate and fear.

I see that sadly instead of mourning for those who have died and trying to figure out what went wrong in the lives of these British men some of the media is using it to whip up anti-immigrant feeling. They were british not immigrants not illegal, had families and jobs.

I'm not going to go on as giving any more time to articles like this wastes valuable time and effort.

I have a very cynical take on all of this - was thinking about it last night.

I think if it was feasible that people could be offered large amounts of money for blowing up tubes/buses and innocent people then you would find plenty of disaffected non-Muslims who would be prepared to do it. There are a great many young, white men who are seemingly equally without conscience, or morals (anyone read Donal McIntyre's interview with two Manchester drug dealers in The Guardian the other day? They seemed utterly amoral to me and I think if they had been offered a financial incentive to do what the bombers in London did they would have done it without a second's hesitation - and if they could have done it without dying themselves).

There are plenty of white, non-Muslim disaffected people in our society. The people who carried out these atrocities were able to hang their disatisfaction, their hatred, their loathing for the world on to a handy peg: that of extreme religion. These feelings are not unique to certain elements of Muslim society - but they were able to channel this hatred into a terrorist act, and were prepared to die in the process because they believed their deaths were glorious and they would get the rewards denied them in this life in the next.

Does this make sense? I'm saying that white, non-Muslims would do this too if they believed there was something in it for them. There is a whole section of society that lives outside the rules, has no hope, no future,no moral framework and is brimming with hatred: be thankful there is nothing in it for them to go round blowing people up.

enid - I am hearing this - also on a lighter note was wearing stupid and impractical kitten heel shoes last Thursday and thought well will have to walk homw will try buy some flipflops/trainers. Would you credit it not a single shop in area I work had a pair left!

You make good sense marthamoo, I read that article by Donal McI as well and I live in said city quite agree people who have no morality are capable of doing anything.

I am still amazed that people consider their own lives and those of others worth so little, I heard one of the relatives suggesting that the bombers were brain washed in some respects I hope that's true but even so there is still someone with enough hate behind the bombs to set it all up.

marthamoo - I hear what you are saying and agree given the right circumstances this type of terrorist attack could have been commited by a non muslim. However there is something exceptionally dangerous in a group who believe that their own death in the persuit of their cause will make them a martyr will some how reward them in heaven? The whole point is that yes your scummy manchester drug dealer may do this kind of thing for loadsa money, but they certainly wouldn't be willing to die in the process.