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The new Minister for Children: what do you think she should be doing?

79 replies

WideWebWitch · 18/06/2003 13:19

Following on from the cabinet reshuffle thread and the discussion about childcare in the school holidays, I wondered which children's issues mumsnetters think the new minister for children should focus on? I'd like to suggest advertising aimed at children for a start, (especially junk food and character tie-ins but don't want a big discussion about it, done so on other threads thanks!) but what do the rest of you think is most important?
Anyone want to volunteer to send her the thread afterwards to ask her what she's going to do about our concerns?!

OP posts:
tigermoth · 19/06/2003 21:35

bells, pph, I have only just seen read the last 30 or so messages on this thread. I am appalled at the conditions you have had to work under, even if this is the city norm. To me it seems like glorified slavery - and you are so experienced, knowledgeable and committed. No one, male or female should regulalry work under those conditions however much money is in their salary. Presumably employees at your high level make made considerable amounts of money for the companies you work for.

I thought I had it bad when I worked for advertising agencies. There was a long hours culture too, inflexibility and little that was family friendly, but nothing in the scale you describe. I still can't get some of the rubbish out of my head, and I left my last full time job 18 months ago. I am so glad I have moved on.

Tom, haven't had time to read all of this thread, but glad you and your views are back on mumsnet.

tigermoth · 19/06/2003 21:37

oh and bells, since you are throwing in the towel at work, I do hope you spend MAXIMUM work time on mumsnet in the next couple of weeks

Ruth21 · 20/06/2003 01:39

TomI've found your proposals really interesting and thought-provoking. I have always thought of the rest of Europe as having much better maternity provision rather than parental provision generally. I'm curious, though, about how much difference it actually makes in practicein countries with more equal entitlement, what proportion of men take parental leave? Aside from cultural assumptions about who is better at childcare, if this was introduced in Britain wouldn't the pay gap between the vast majority of heterosexual couples mean that women would still be pushed towards taking the leave and men towards continuing working? (I'm assuming, maybe incorrectly, that few couples could afford/would think it worth it for both partners to take leave at the same time after the first couple of weeks.) This is not an argument against Tom's proposalshe is probably right that the current system increases trends towards pay inequalitybut is perhaps a reason for caution. I doubt this system would overturn the gender division of labour overnight!

Have you thought about non-traditional families, though, Tom? What about queer parents where there are two women bringing up a child? What entitlements would your system grant the non-biological mother? Or what aboutas in my situationa family in which there are more than two parents? We are a family made up of a lesbian couple and a gay couple, with one dd and another child on the way? When I have this baby, who among my partner, the baby's bio-dad, and his/her non-bio-dad, should be entitled to what leave, and how much?? (Last time we all managed to get a week or two out of our employers, but I imagine regulation would get a lot tighter if the whole system was more expensive.)

Thanks for making me think! Now I really must go to bed. I think I'm the last mumsnetter still awake.

Tom · 01/07/2003 12:46

Sorry to resurrect this - I've been on holiday! Just to respond to Ruth...

Getting the leave regime right is part of the picture - eliminating the pay gap is an essential other part - I work with the EOC on this issue - for me the pay gap is a pain in the arse - it limits men's caring opportunities.

The inequality in leave worsens the pay gap (women out of the labour market for so long compared to men) and the pay gap leads to couples deciding that the woman should do the childcare and the men should do the earning.

It's interesting that in the UK now (according to the latest research - my source is Dianne Houston from Univ of Kent) that if couples are offered a "money no object" choice of different divisions of labour (e.g. man working full time, woman at home, man working, woman working part time etc...), the MOST popular option among british men AND women nowadays is:

Man AND woman both working flexibly and both sharing childcare.

Interesting, eh? I think current policies are failing people's aspirations.

In European countries with more progressive leave regimes, things are better - Swedish dads are much more involved than UK ones for example, but there are other factors - e.g. in Holland tax on second incomes are v high so hardly any women bother working. So you have to get the whole situation right to establish a level playing field for men and women with regard to both work and caring opportunities.

RE: gay families etc - I was asked this when I sat on the DTI's committee looking at the implementation of paternity leave - what about female partners of women giving birth. My position has always been that whatever fathers are entitled to, they should be entitled to as well. So if we had a transferable system, or a parental leave system, they'd get the same.

It's easier for lesbian couples, cos one is generally giving birth, and the situation is similar to a straight couple. However, the biological father may be involved. Under current legislation, I would say that the female partner and the bio father could BOTH take paternity leave if they were going to have a role in the child's upbringing - that's how I argued it in committee.

For gay dads - it's much more complicated, as I'm sure you know. It comes under adoption law, I think?

Adoption leave really shows how ridiculous the current situation is - one parent has up to a year, but the other can only take 2 weeks. And neither have given birth, so there's NO question of recovery from birth - I think it's ridiculous, and forces couples into a primary/secondary carer model, whereas the most popular option these days is for shared care.

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