Economist says this "broken Britain" malarky is bollocks

[SerenityNowakaBleh]

here and here Obviously", they didn't word it in that way, but that's the gist of it.
The murder rate has dropped
The rate of teenage pregnancies has dropped
The crime rate has dropped
Alcoholism is dropping
Drug use is dropping
Fewer people smoke
There is a decrease in domestic violence ("Her partner will probably not marry her and he is less likely to stick with her than were men in previous generations, but he is also a lot less likely to beat her.")

So, David Cameron. Not that hot on sticking to facts, is he?

DOH

sorry

I think (controversially) part of the lack of community spirit is due to fear-mongering by the political parties and media. If you think (because you've been told repeatedly, by the press and not-so-well-meaning=politicians) that every teenager is a hoodie on drugs, packing heat, you're going to be wary of them. So if in trouble, or needing assistance, you're less likely to ask for help. There is total paranoia about strangers - and this kills any attempts at community spirit.

There's a poll in the times today;

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7020009.ece

I agree Serenity.

From the comments on the times article- "People need to take these kinds of "surveys" with a massive pinch of salt. Haiti is a broken society. Britain is not."

Good to get some perspective!

"Haiti is a broken society. Britain is not."

What happened in Haiti is a natural tragedy (and they had been broken for a good many years before that because of their 'government' ) but with outside help Haiti will have the chance to rebuild and become stronger than it was.

What's happened in Britain is a man made politically induced tragedy and will take a new government and a lot of financial suffering by it's people to get over.

Sorry meant to say we would be better placed to help the people of Haiti if we had had good fiscal policy for the last 12 years.

We have community spirit of a sort - everyone in our street knows each other (at least to say hi to), the children play together, we are safe to let the children walk to the park alone and the older ones go further afield. We look out for each other's children. There are no armed gangs of youths, no terror dogs, very little burglary and no serious violence. And we don't live in Stepford, we live in a quite rundown little town with social problems. But by and large the social problems are restricted to one of two areas and those were always problem areas.

The worst thing we have to deal with is dog shit and litter and the sort of petty theft that irritates rather than traumatises.

Britain isn't broken. There never was a time when there weren't social problems of one kind or another.

I find this interesting;

70% of people polled think Britain is broken

30% will vote labour

So is it the 30% of die hard labour supporters who think Britain isn't broken I wonder?

Twas also worse if you were in care or part of some bits of the catholic chuch or a rape victim, or sometimes just a woman or a child with automatically less rights.

This year in my county for the first time since the stats were recorded there were no partner on partner killings. That is amazing - and there has been so much effort over the last 10 years in this area to try to combat domestic violence, it is directly down to that.

There are posters all over the ante-natal clinics and HV clinic areas - as they know you are so much more vunerable when pregnant or after the birth of a child. They really are using the research done to target money and recources in the most effective ways - and it is working.

"The 70's and 80's was a great time to be a child"

Really? I just remember grinding poverty.

"We had estate parties on the lawns with big makeshift tables"

Aren't all those council houses sold off now?

I don't recall any community spirit myself apart from the women of our street getting together a petition to stop an Indian family from moving in. That was the first and only time I saw my mother go bananas in public with someone.

I don't believe Britain is broken at all. There are loads of families who have strong bonds, strong sense of responsibility and cooperation at least between themselves. There are hoodlums but there always have been. Check this book out

There is crime, yes, different kinds of crime to what went on before but everything evolves. It's far from great but that's life.

Whatever atlantis, I wasn't looking for a party political broadcast thanks, just trying to add some perspective to the moral panic.

Statistically, things are much better than the Tories or media in general would spin it. That's what I learned from a source that doesn't have an electoral agenda, but please keep plugging your Tory soundbites. I could do with a wee nap.

"That's what I learned from a source that doesn't have an electoral agenda"

If your speaking of DD208 or DD201 it has a very political agenda.

"70% of people polled think Britain is broken

30% will vote labour

So is it the 30% of die hard labour supporters who think Britain isn't broken I wonder?"

The article says the poll suggests that 70% think Britain is broken, for a start - which is very odd phraseology to use in describing a piece of survey data. Either they do or they don't!

I would also be very wary of this statistic, without seeing the actual question that was used to elicit the figure. The way in which questions are asked has a massive impact on the response/score that you get as a result. For example, if they had asked:

"Do you have any concerns about Britain?", followed with "And if you do, what are those?" you would get a very, very different response from asking "Do you think Britain is broken?"

The latter prompts a knee-jerk response whereas the former finds out what is actually in the minds of those being polled.

And asking if/suggesting that the 30% who vote Labour are the remaining 30% is silly. A proportion of that 70% will, of course, have been Labour voters - but without seeing the cross tabs we can't come to those conclusions.

And, while I'm on a roll, it isn't just what happened in Britain, it's what happened in the world.

And you said:
"I also believe that life on the council estates was different to life for those living in the houses that surrounded us ( they never joined in and stayed behind closed doors with the children playing in the garden ) ( too good to play with the poorer children perhaps?)."

FYI, one of my best friends at school was from said council estate, and we all played in the street together. (Remember the days when you could play football/tennis in the road, as there weren't so many cars being driven down them?)

Becauseimworthit,

As I said before statistic can be manipulated.

The 70-30 was tongue in cheek (have to keep reminding myself mn's do not have a sense of humour over the laboured government).

" it isn't just what happened in Britain, it's what happened in the world. "

Agree, but we can't fix the world, we'll be lucky to fix Britain.

"Remember the days when you could play football/tennis in the road"

Yes.

Personally I would like to see every member of parliament being an independent. (but try getting this country voters off the couch to achieve that).

I have voted Labour and conservative and will vote conservative this time because Labour just aren't listening (although they are putting out some decent policy changes now but if elected this would go down the pan again like last time)and the conservatives are the only other party in the race.

I do believe this country is broken and I don't believe labour, we can't go on with more of the same so the only other option is conservative.

It's not 'broken Britain' so much as 'unequal Britain'. There are great areas of the country where life is pretty good, crime is low, neighbours get on with each other, children go to nice schools, shops thrive. If you live in one of those areas you'd say Britain is as good a place to live in now as it has ever been

BUT

There are other areas that are a complete contrast. Where the crime rate is extremely high, jobs are scarce, the shops are either boarded up or selling everything for £1 and where buying groceries dressed in pyjamas is de rigeur.

So generalising about 'Broken Britain' is misleading. Most isn't broken at all but some parts are really struggling.

And it was ever thus, Chil1234.

Not a great fact, but it's no more true now than it was 50 years ago.

Brilliant post Cory.

"buying groceries dressed in pyjamas "

I couldn't believe this when I read it in the newspaper, who the hell goes to the shops or school dressed in their pyjamas?

I'm stupid enough to go up and say something like ' oh you poor dear, house fire was it?- lose everything did you?'

" There are great areas of the country where life is pretty good, crime is low, neighbours get on with each other, children go to nice schools, shops thrive. If you live in one of those areas you'd say Britain is as good a place to live in now as it has ever been"

I now live in one of those places but I can see that Britain is still broken in the others, it's not a case of i'm all right thank you sod everyone else though is it, you have to take the country as a whole.

Oh atlantis, you've got to admit that the vile soundbite alliteration is just stupid and irritating - a country can't really be said to be "broken" as that implies some kind of utopian perfection which (a) it had been in in order to "break" and (b) can be achieved again if we all just vote right and vote nostalgia. Neither are true, and it's counter-productive to trot out trite little phrases like this simply because they rhyme and/or alliterate. It makes me think that David Cameron thinks I'm stupid, and therefore makes me disinclined to vote for him.

And lord knows every generation since time began thinks their childhood more idyllic than that of the present day. Doesn't make it true...

But I really don't understand all this. How, exactly is Britain broken?

I think the term broken could be a good euphemism for the increasing gap between rich and poor. The reduction in social mobility. The stark contrast between the 'haves' and the 'have nots'.... The country is sharply divided and people on one side of that divide have very different lives to people on the other. Much moreso than in the past, I'd say. It's increasingly clear that if you find yourself on the wrong side of that divide you have less chance to improve yourself than even 10 years ago.... That's the challenge facing whoever is in power next, to address the inequalities. To borrow a term from the school system... fix the failing neighbourhoods.

It's oddly refreshing that these ideas are coming from a right-wing party since, by definition, equality should be the socialists' stock in trade.

i really do think cheap drugs are to blame, everyone wants to get coked out of their minds. i don't see how it can improve and britain is getting worse. We have had three murders round here in the last few years. beforehand we had none. when it's on your doorstep it's hard to say it isn't broken tnh.