Severe child poverty has increased

[BetsyBoop]

BBC News item

"13% of the UK's children were living in severe poverty, up two percentage points on 2004."

"Save the Children defines severe poverty as those living in households with incomes of less than 50% of the UK median income disregarding housing costs) and who were also missing some basic possessions, such as a winter coat."

"Save the Children's director of UK programmes Fergus Drake said: "It's shocking that at a time when the UK was experiencing unprecedented levels of wealth the number of children living in severe poverty - we're talking about children going without a winter coat, a bed and other day-to-day essentials - actually increased."

The story varies across the UK. In Northern Ireland, 8% of children are extremely poor. In Scotland it is 9% while in England and Wales it is 13% - a figure pushed up by the situation in London where 19% of youngsters live in severe poverty. "

Part of me finds this totally shocking and part of me thinks surely this can't be true. Are one in 8 children (one in 5 in London) really not getting enough food, warm clothes & a bed to sleep in?

"can understand that relative poverty is on the increase, you'd sort of expect that in a recession anyway? "

I think the problem is that if you look at the dates the data was collected over it actually rose before the recession - while the economy was still booming.

You can only get a social fund grant if you're on benefits (and even then it's not a dead cert that you'll get it/get enough).

I couldn't alter my coat for any of my DC

a) despite my mothers VERY best efforts (she made all our clothes until we were 5 or 6years old) at teaching me I cannot sew, well I know the mechanics of it all (as she showed me/made me do it so many times in an effort to make a quarte decent seamtress out of me) - but I've never once managed to make anything that a) is really useable b) doesn't fall apart after the first wash .

b)Even my oldest DS (who is only 9) would rather go cold than wear something that's mine - even if it's not really "feminine" looking - he lost his hat over this cold period we've just had, I offered him mine to take to school (just a plain black hat) - but he refused to wear it (so he went cold and I wouldn't let him whinge afterwards).

Mind you having said that I've seen children coming out of the junior school (so YR6 and below) NOT Wearing their jackets - apparently it's not "cool" to wear jackets .

true cat about priorties - but when the bills aren't paid (including the mortgage) and you have £15 for food and nappies for the week having priorities makes sod all difference.

When you HAVE to buy the 2nd hand/take the free stuff otherwise you wouldn't have it all at, when the option to spend more and buy new just isn't there - that's no about priorities - and it's frequently not about budgeting - if you haven't got the money you haven't got the money for many families.

"did make us wonder on many an occasion how much in need they were, and how they were able to "afford" to turn down perfectly usable furniture delivered to their door for free."

Sometimes I honestly think that's sometimes down to a simple case of "well I haven't had that for x amount of time, waiting a bit longer for something I actually like will make sod all difference" (combined with a bit of the old "pride").

H lived in an almost empty house, with almost nothing in terms of furniture for months, he turned perfectly good stuff down if he didn't like it. His reasoning was "well I've lived this long without a bed/sofa/table may as well wait until something I like turns up"

I think the idea of altering things etc also presumes youve got the required knowledge, skills and toolkit to make do and mend - As a student I had a great little collection of essentials aquired by the time I left uni - sewing kit, fabric scissors, tools like screwdrivers, pliers etc, basic stuff to revamp shoes, all the sort of useful items that you needed only occasionally - but all of these cost money and when you are deciding between which extra essential to buy eg a new iron or new trousers (no offense but good example) they are probably not a priority.

Some knowlege like sewing or DIY often goes along with those innate life skills you pick up from your home and upbringing - like cleaning, budgeting or cooking, meaning that those with a background of social, if not material deprivation are the least likely to have had a chance to learn them

offence? sp

Tocatta - I concurr. Again there is this kind of lsightly patronising middle class consesnsus that if you are a bit poor that you should take what you are given and be jolly grateful. We are all individuals and charity doesn't always accomodate either cultural difference or well...personal taste.

Just because you are poor it doesn't mean you should have to forfeit autonomy.

no offense taken .

tbh our situation isn't that bad - just an unfortunate co-incidence of Christmas coinciding with 2 children growing rapidly at the same time (they usually managed to space it out nicely lol).........and the iron dying (although H did had his tin little travel iron in the cupboard is has transpire so that will do us until I can get my electrician friend ot have a look at ours to see if it's fixable)

Generally we do live an ok life though, I've got a good education behind me, means I know how to work the monthly (well weekly/4 weekly) money to budget for most small essentials so long as 2 don't come along at once and I've got a couple of weeks notice. Also helps that I can cook on an extreme budget (past experience prior to current situation) so having just a "small" food budget rather than a miniseries one makes thing fairly easy for me.

Thankfully from next winter on I should only have to buy clothes regularly for DS1 for a good while to come - as I've still got all DS1 and 2's old clothes to pass down to the other to.

If I hadn't grown up in a family where I was taught to make things stretch, how to work the budget, had a decent education things could be very different for me indeeed. And in fact those things didn't really help us 4yrs ago when the shit really hit the fan fincially speaking, there was no money to stretch, after a couple of weeks there were no "cupboard" things to use up for random meals.

If I'd needed an essential I would have had to borrow money - and indeed we had to - making the cycle worse until we were able to claw our way out of it.

I'm a bit about computers and broadband being the province of the rich because old but decent PCs can be picked up along with many other essential items on Freecycle.

Freecycle is an amazing source of second-hand goods which apparently should be denied to people on the poverty line.

Broadband costs us £5 per month as part of a package. I would hazard a guess that the 16p per day rate is far cheaper than dragging your newborn and toddler on the bus to the library every day to look for work. It's certainly much cheaper than a daily local newspaper. Is that considered a total luxury in this day and age? Even if the local jobs are advertised on a certain day there are always plenty of tips regarding up and coming opportunities for people to aspire to.

People in dire circumstances sometimes need to obtain the phone numbers of the companies they are dealing with in order to negotiate with them. I used to do this sort of thing on the office phone and I'm sure many people still do.

When you are a lone parent you are given a premium rate number which kind of puts you off dialling. There is an site called "Say No to 0870" which gives alternative geographical land line numbers for most utility companies. I use it all the time, nor do I ever have to call the hugely expensive 118 118.

Then there are price comparison sites to get the best rate for your insurance, gas and electric amongst other things. My DH saved my Dad £400 per year on his house insurance the other day with a quick tap tap of his phone.

Some peasants have always traditionally wanted to know a bit about what is going on in the world, the cheeky sods, like my Grandfather who fought in WWII, and have always, despite everything, bought a national newspaper!

Now tell me that an internet connection is a luxury. 16p per day, for entertainment, the latest stories and comment, support whatever your need, information including how to budget, keep a clean house, shop well, cook cheap and nutritious meals, find second-hand goods, support for children with SN, all of which can be found right here on Mumsnet.

Bobbins is it a luxury, it's access to local services, communication stamp-free, the availability of completely updated banking and tracking of money in and out, the ability to shop on-line which saves you money for transport, I could go on...

Affluent families might very well not miss internet services because usually they don't NEED them themselves. Why rely on Google maps and BA updates when one's travel agent arranges such details? That is an extreme example but still... it illustrates my point.

there's one problem with someone getting a computer off freecycle.............to get something off freecycle you need to have access to a computer, reasonably regularly too.

• just read the rest of your post and realised that was the point you were making.........that life because much easier (and often a lot cheaper) when you have a computer

No worries Toccata - love your name btw

thanks (wish I could take credit for it myself but 2001Quint-erwhatsitname came up with it for me

Child poverty exists where I live .
One family were living in a two bedroomed flat this was the Grandmother and Grandfather ,the brother and then the sister with her 3 children all under 6.
This was last winter and the Mum was sleeping in one bed with her dc and they had had their boiler condemmed by the council and the washer had broke.
I understand that the Mum has now moved into her own home but it shocked me last year when the Grandmother told me about the situation.
There is also the little girl in dd's class who is sent to school with her older brothers clothes and shoes on her Mum pushes her baby brother around in a pram and the handles are held together with masking tape.
It is just one big vicious circle for some people benefits go in but they go in the bank on 3 different days for some people so x amount will go in on a monday then x amount on a Friday and so on and so on.
So with small amounts going in people are not doing big shops or spending the money on prepayment meters which are a massive drain.
If it all went in on the same day I do think some people would be able to budget better rather than having it in dribs and drabs through the week.
As someone else said people are using companys such as Brighthouse and Buy as you view which are extortionate.
The ones that really get my goat though are doorstep loans they target poor areas waving vouchers in peoples faces and they always seem to come around at Xmas and just before the children go back to school in September because they know that people need to buy gifts or school uniforms the vouchers are taken and then people are faced with paying it back week in week out.
Another thing I have seen a lot of is healthy start vouchers which are supposed to be used for fruit/milk for under 5's our local corner shop takes the vouchers and people buy anything they want including alcohol/cigarattes rather than it been spent on things the children need.

oh gosh yes the different days things go in is a nightmare. Found in very hard when I first went from a monthly salary (H's) to weekly and 4 weekly payments.

IS would go in every week
Child benefit - every 4 weeks
Housing benefit - every 4 weeks
CTC - every 4 weeks.

But those every 4 weeks one came on different days in the week, and during different weeks in the month.

Going from "one" monthly amount of money to a little bit hear, a little bit there, and getting 13 payments for most of the major things, but having monthly bills gave me a headache for months. Trying to work out that you've got X amount of bills each month and having to sit down and work out how much of one months benefits to "hold" for the next month (because of the "extra" payment) isn't easy.

I know my DSIS finds it hard to cope with her money going in on different days.

Toccata I am like your DH - I will make do until I have something I actually like. I know from experience that if I accept the first thing I am offered, or buy something really cheap to make do, I will get fed up with it and constantly want something better/nicer, but feel obliged to use the item I have until it wears out. However if I make do without, or buy/accept an offer of something temporary which is near the end of its life, I feel I have more reason to replace it when I can afford to/when one comes up, and when I do get the new thing I appreciate it so much more.

Also the different payments on different days thing is a bit of a pain. I have got Income Support every 2 weeks, HB every 4 and Tax credits every week. I just set up two bank accounts, one which I spend on and one which has all the direct debits coming out. I have all the benefits paid into the DD account, have worked out what my total DDs are each month, then work that out weekly (times by 12 to get the amount per year, divide by 52) and add a bit extra on to be safe, then set up a standing order for the rest to go into my "spending" account, which I buy things like food and clothes from. I was lucky though to have some savings which I put into the DD account to start it off as a kind of float and stop it going overdrawn. I really have to watch out for going overdrawn as if I get charged often it has a spiral effect where I will put money in to cover it it won't cover the charge I get the next month for being overdrawn the previous month. Grr.

I agree as well that having internet access saves me money. I haven't got a package but pay about £8 a month with O2. There is line rental as well though which is expensive, but the added bonus of having a landline which makes 0845 numbers etc a lot cheaper (even using saynoto0870 you sometimes find no alternatives) - I buy most of DS' clothes on ebay though which pays for itself as I would never find as nice stuff for as little in a charity shop, new stuff is expensive once they grow out of sleepsuits and vests and I just don't know enough people with older DCs to keep him in handmedowns. I do my shopping online because I don't drive and this makes it difficult to do a "big shop" - I can buy things in bulk, take advantage of special offers and avoid the expensive local shops apart from for things like milk. And since my freeview box has broken I hardly ever watch TV - in fact am considering not bothering with a TV licence at all next year and just getting a DVD player or something. My Grandad was very disapproving of me getting internet access as he sees it as a luxury, but didn't blink at the thought of me having a TV Licence - just different priorities I guess

I will also make do (although I have got a few things from freecycle).
My Grandma is always offering me dodgy old coats she has had since the 50's .
It does upset me when I see people I know struggling or buying things on endless credit with massive interest rates.

I can well believe that some people cannot afford a bed. Dd1's old room was extremely small. Only a specially made bed would fit. So we couldn't just go and buy one 2nd hand from the paper and didn't have over £200 to shell out for a bed. I wouldn't have felt comfortable with her sleeping in just anyones old bed anyway. I can't explain why.

Luckily, I come from a family that seem to have incrediable knack of finding spare beds when they are in need

Dd1 got neices old, specially made bed. When she got a new one. They now have Aunty X's old bunkbeds.

Like another poster, when I was a single mum to dd1 (living on about £110 pw inc Child benefit) my baby didn't go with out, but I did because I simply coildn't afford to keep the house heated, us both clothed, her in nappies and us both fed properly. I also lived without a fridge for months, untill it came to summer time and my great uncle very kindly bought a new fridge/freezer, just so that he could donate his old to me, He didn't need a new one, but he knew I wouldn't have accepted it from him.

Without my family back then, I'd have been stuffed.

Unfortunately I can well believe the stats

I grew up in that kind of environment but even now its quite bad for some families. My DH is a police officer and the other day he spoke to a witness and he said the toddle didnt have a cot, he was fast alseep in his buggy and this was around 11pm

I take whatever we're offered! The gal across from us moved out, and I got a chest of drawers and a fab metal bunkbed frame (for the girls). I put the divans in our old landlords' loft to use when DS is old enough for a bed and the landlord is re-doing one bedroom in their house so they can use teh other divan after they finish the work.

We got our landlord's old couch, bookshelf, computer table, a chest of drawers, some bedside tables.

Everytime one of thse threads comes up, however, it's always about people on benefits, particularly lone parents.

There's usually nary a word about the working poor. Believe me, there is desperate poverty among the working poor, too, particularly fuel poverty.

expat - I've mentioned the working poor in this thread

Someone on here said about a tv licence and not getting one as they dont watch the telly well you need one for the computer and if you watch DVD's I am afaird and it would be a colour one you'd need as well as DVDs are in colour. Sorry to be the bringer of doom and gloom.

I take second hand as well. Hubby works on miminum wage and has just had his hours cut again.

I have known us to go without a meal to feed the kids in the past.

The thing is I have a pal that thinks poverty is if she has one horse. To me it is not being able to pay the bills and living off the credit cards wondering how they are going to be paid.

See the DM thinks that all the ones on benefits or low paid are raking it in and they couldnt be further from the truth.