Judge orders boy 11 to live with father he hates

[atlantis]

An appeal court judge has upheld the the order that a boy aged 11 should be removed from his mother, whom he is thriving with, and live with his father who he hates and has not seen for four years;

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245603/Judge-orders-boy-11-live-father-hates-seen-years.html

The rights of the child, including his human rights being clearly ignored.

This is becoming more common that fathers 'rights' are viewed as more important than a childs right to a happy, healthy family life and the best interests of the child are being ignored.

it does seem bizarre - but I do wonder what role the mother has played in him "hating" his father........I know it's the DM and not to be trusted - but there's something about

"The mother, a professional woman, had said she was happy for the boy to have contact with his father ? when he was ready to do so"

makes me feel that perhaps she has had some role in not allowing access - and convincing him that his father is to be hated.

It's not difficult when you're a single parent with a young child(ren) to have them grow up to despise an absent parent if you so wished to (no matter what the reasons for the absense is).

Obviously I'm not saying it's the right decision - but I do tend to take what I read inthe DM with a pinch of salt

"I know it's the DM and not to be trusted -"

Here's another paper for you then;

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/6608541/Judge-orders-boy-to-live-with-fathe r-against-his-wishes.html

It seems the father had contact with his son but threatened to not see him anymore if the child did not live with him (emotional blackmail to the court). But the child will not be living full time with father and new step mom as they work away from home a lot so the child will be left with someone else.

In the childs best interests?

So who is going to take the blame if the poor boy goes completly off the rails?

'The father he hates' : how can an 11 year old have such strong feelings about his father if there hasn't been some 'grooming' or 'conditioning' by the mother??

And seriously, if Dh and I were ever to divorce and he got custody his job would also mean that my children would be brought up by others ...

It just smacks of how immature and self absorbed the parents are in the first place ...

why does the boy belief his father has "ruined" his life - who taught him that?

Must say it's a different story from the DM - who said he hadn't seem him for 4yrs, yet the 2nd link indicates that they had been having contact otherwise there would have been nothing for him to threaten to "cut" surely?

I don't know - surely you have to ask why it's taken 10/11YEARS for a custody battle to be sorted out?

The split up when he was a baby and it's take this long to sort things out????????

And of course that's the mother's barrister who is claimimg that they'll be working away from home

Who knows what to believe?

I just don't think all single mothers are sweetness and light and know how easily it is to turn a child against an absent parent (and indeed vice versa)

yes the "brought up by others"

I see his mother is described as "also a professional" ..........I'd hazard a good guess that she's utilised childcare facilities for him already.

oh I dunno

HAve to agree that sometime it is so important for the court that the contact with the father is respected (clearly because there are thousands of cases where the father can't get to see the children thanks to spiteful mother), that they can ignore the needs of the child.

Exh has always had as much access to DS as he wanted, yet we ended on mediation about other things and there was that stupid woman (the mediator) madly fighting the corner of exh with regards to contact, totally ignoring the fact that exh was seeing DS every day, had half of the holidays, DS spends a good number of nights at his house and simply can't be there more because his Dad's job doesn't lend itself to it. At some point I felt like saying, excuse me, he has all the contact he wants, your attitude is starting to make me think that unless I agree to handover DS to his father 100% of time, you are not going to be happy, oh... and you also are ignoring the fact that the child won't be spending more time with his father, only less with his mum...

It's desperately sad all round. It's not good for a child to have to move home in such circumstances but, similarly, it's not good if the resident parent works hard to frustrate contact. In such situations I think the courts are somewhat between a rock and a hard place.

This thread is bollocks. A court does not remove a chld from a parent because the other parent has threatened to stop seeing the child. If the parent did that they would simply reduce or refuse to increase contact.

They will however, in an extreme case of parental alienation remove the child from the perpetrator as that is emotional abuse of the child.

The paper is not printing the facts, it can't. The family courts are closed to public scrutiny.

I would love to see the ops hard evidence that courts are disregarding childrens welfare in favour of appeasing fathers.

Wasn't there a thread on this last week, the mum was on here wasn't she?

"The paper is not printing the facts, it can't. The family courts are closed to public scrutiny."

This is an appeal court ruling which is not closed to public scrutiny but is anonomised.

clearly because there are thousands of cases where the father can't get to see the children thanks to spiteful mother

do you have any idea how hard to is to get a legal refusal of access?

only 14% of those that try are successful - think how common domestic violence is - do you still think it is easy?

there is no way of knowing all the facts on this case in order for anyone to judge.

family courts are all still conducted in secrecy and not reported on

i'bve been in the court system a long time,and i assume that the mother here will have blocked contact at every turn to get to this stage. PAS isnt recognised here,in the states its used in these cases. could be appropriate here. parental alienation syndrome.

but,the judge will have had the option of either sending her to jail (rarely) or transfer residency....the mother will have flouted the contact orders for it to have got this far.

judges are exercising their powers more and more in this area.

I can tell you I have just read this and it has put the fear of fucking God into me. I am in a sort of the same situation, my children are refusing to see their Father. The younger doesn't even recognise him is she sees a picture the older sort of want to see him but everytime we get close to contact she breaks down and begs not to go. My girls are 8 and 6 and the Father left us 4 years ago.

My children are jusy about to have Cafcass officer appointed ad their Guardian because of this intractable dispute - they will be appointed a Lawyer. Their Father has been violent in the past and I cannot prove this even though my older daughter told people at school and a former cafcass Officer too. She is getting NSPCC help for the trauma she has suffered as a consequence of seeing me beaten and strangled. However, the court do not feel that these things are important in their decision. I was even dragged into court at 8 and a half months pregnant to answer questions even though this man walked away from children for months and months on end, has not finacially supported them and has behaved in a questionable manner when then are with him. He also didn't turn up to a final hearing after a year and half of court appearances because he went on holiday instead.

It is neverending, terrifying and as I am defending my children without legal help so far, this makes me just want to run away.

I am not all sweetness and light but I can tell you I have not poisened my children against their Dad, my older one has seen him come into my house and steal and has heard him say awful things about me, her miond is made up.

If I receive a ruling like this I will leave the country immediately and will not return.

"do you have any idea how hard to is to get a legal refusal of access?"

Yes, very very very few. However, getting such order is incredible difficult, but ignoring one is not. The problem is not getting it, but enforcing it, as many people in Families Need Fathers would tell you.

I know a good number of people who have realised that they can break such orders with relative facility. I also know a man who has an order specifying contact every other weekend, exw doesn't respect it, and he has spent all the money he has in taking her to court where she gets a smack in the hand, is reminded that the dad has the right to see his children and next week, she is back at ignoring the order.

However, as I mentioned in my first post, I think that in the interest in increasing access for fathers, some times the needs of the children may be ignored, not willingly I may say.

similiar experience to you tarty....but cafcass want him to have no access as he has gone on to be violent to 3 girlfriends he had after i left him. i contacted all 3 on facebook to warn them,they all said yes,he's told me about the dv he put you through,is sorry,wont happen again etc etc.....had messages back from all of them to tell me what he ended up doing to them. they hadd ss involved too as they had dc from other relationships. its the reason i have been given a 'no order'......except his sol is still quibbling over a fortnightly phone call to my 7 and 11 year olds....the girls have both refused any contact at all,and are listened to. they are allowed to have that and he cant ever contact them.

tarty,get a mckenzie friend?

I have to say that I think think this ruling is in light of the dad having a good Lawyer - I do feel had I have been able to afford a Lawyer that we would have been able to sort out supervised access sooner and this would not have got so bad. If things are difficult it is very difficult to get access to help. Our Cafcass officer has gone off long term sick because her work load is so high and we are being appointed someone else but it has taken months.

british courts dont recognise parental alienation syndrome.....yet!

tarty,get a mckenzie friend?

what's one of them then?

At the moment we ahve a no order situation because he didn't turn up and then (after he threatened to abduct them and the police were involved) i offered supervised access at contact centre and he refused this entirely until he saw that I was pregnant and then dragged me back to court. Cafcass were very strongly against him have unsupervised access because he has been inappropriate with them re. terrible punishments etc. He has now started a fathers for justice group locally and has remodelled himself as a spiritual healer. he is highly manipulative and has thrown about the parental alienation syndrome thing about already and has now hinted that he will try to custody again. I am just terrified for the girls becuase they haven't seen him for almost 2 years after the abduction attempt. I just feel that no-one lsitens, when i go into court the judge lectures me on how important his role is in their life but really the dragging me into court id not about getting contact resolved it is just to carry on bullying me and the children as he did when he lived with us.

He has mental health problems and the judge told him to prodice medical records but they couldn't find anyone to apy for them to be printed - i offered but apparently this is no good, so consequently they are not in the file for consideration. I just feel if I had a kick ass lawyer then i could have sorted this but then again he would just find something else to take me back to court about.

dittany - it's also easy for a child that rarely sees his father (which it sounds like the case here) to be manipulated by the mother.

I would find it very easy (if I wanted - which I definitely don't!) to turn my DS's against their father if I so chose to do.

"given that this boy will not actually be being taken care of his father for a great deal of the time. "

so you're saying that the mother who is described as a "professional woman" - took care of him all the time he's not in school?