OPinions on the woman who killed her son?

[SherriHewsonsNipple]

do you think she desverved 9 years?

Am i right in thinking he wasnt strictly speaking terminally ill

EdgarAllenSnow
We do not just imprison murderers who are no danger to anyone else, do we?

Murder is murder, no matter what the motive. The prison term is not only to protect others, it is a punishment and a deterrent.

If I murder my mum to inherit her house I wouldn't be a danger to anyone else because there isn't anyone else who is likely to ever leave me anything. Does that mean I should get off scot free?

Thing is that if you are found guilty of murder then you can't get a pat on the head and a don't do it again dear sentence (even if that was the right thing to do). If there had been true mitigating circumstances (most often self defense or a mental health mitigation of some sort) then manslaughter would have been a possibility but this was a premeditated act, the definition of murder being "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another".

The parents tha went with the son ,it was his choice not theres.

Who was he to make the choice for im and suh short time after.

And where would people draw the line at what they consider a quality of life ,some would look at my ds ad decide he has no quality of life no use tosociety .But yet most the time hes happy doing what he can do and thats far more than what Drs ever said he woulddo .

And medcine and treatment for brain damage has come so far who knows what else will happene

so far as i am concerned she murdered him

9 years seems a short sentence to me.

I support euthanasia, but this was not that.

My guess is that she couldn't cope with his condition, perhaps he was no longer living up to the ideal of what she wanted. It was not aboout what was best for him.

I think it was more about her too. It sounds like she was in denial that he could have any quality of life. He can't have been vegative if he was communicating (squeezing hands and blinking).

I worked with a lady who had whopping great hole in the back of her head - severe brain damage. The only movement she had was to swallow and blink, and she could communicate with slow eye pointing. No movement at all from the neck down. She had (probably still has) a fantastic quality of life, always laughing, out shopping or visiting family most days - she was content! Thank god she had a husband who loved and supported her, and enabled her to attain that quality of life!

The idea that a person needs an able body for quality of life is so wrong. Some people do really struggle, and some people will choose death instead, but this boy wasn't even given a chance.

Hmm.

I have heard the lad'sgirlfriend talk breifly on this,andhis brotjer.

Fromwhat I can try to grasp there seems to have been a lot of conflicting stories given to them about quality of life and prognosis. The GF says they weretold he was in a PVS. Now,I imagine that would be enougfh to screw your head- apaprently (and obv this is all hersay /media one Dr wouldtell them he would be OK, the next that therewas no hope.

I imagine that would take the ability from me to make rational decisions, especially when mixed with fear.

I think it is also notable that GF and Bro supported the action.

As I agree she seems not to be a danger to anyone else I wuld have thought the sentence suspended would be mroe appropriate tbh. I am not sure the actual nature of his injuries was the key at all- more the complete confusion surounding it and the fear people have of dependency.

Interesting that other people heard a diffeent story about the G:says a lot about how this is reported perhaps?

sorry peachy but a suspended sentance for pre meditated murder??

She took someone's life. It was murder. If I murdered someone because they were the one person in the world I hated I might not be a danger to anyone else. I might think it the kind thing to do if they were so horrible everyone hated them and they knew that. I don't think anyone would say I deserved anything other than a stiff sentence. Why is this different? Because the son was disabled? If you think it is different what does that say about the value you place on disabled vs non- disabled lives?

It was premeditated but i think it was done through fear /love/sheer panic

I don't think the fact she worked with LD is a help, I can assure you my experiences in some LD units pre children is anything but,the idea of consigning ds3 to one of those has been known to make me sob

I don't think this is the sort of case to use to send a message, and I don'tthink there is any risk of reoffending. The wholepoint osasuspendedobv is one hint of it and she'd be in serving.

It just sounds like a horrible mess tome, fear misinformation and doubt probably combined with enough knowledge to petrify and not enough to understand

There's also the case that every person I have known in RL with severe disability at this level and discernibkle quality of life in a way i'd want it (which I suggest would be experientially different from that which ds3w would value as he doesn't have 'before') has an adoring relation to caref or them. And sadly none of us are imortal. I could see why fear would push you towards something you wouldn't otherwise do I don't in any way think it is the right thing to do miond,just to make that clear! I certainly wouildn't do it myself.

What we needissomekind of living will so that peoplecan know what people's preferences are rather than speculate. I have very set end of life wishes formeand although DH is well aware there is nobody else I could ask, and a document that people would have to take intoaccountwould be a positive. forexample, having food and water withdrawn is a terror of mine due toexperience of beings everely dehydrated near coma and on a drip: I wish I had a way of preventing that in favour of another option.

'If you think it is different what does that say about the value you place on disabled vs non- disabled lives? '

That'sonly one aspect of it.

There is far more: I value every disabled and NT person equally but I also have experiences of LD care that I would not want formy children. It alsodoesn'ttake iindividual griefreaction into account- grief and bereavement lasts years and I wouldimagine PTSD was in play as well so there is an argument that far more factors come into play than just that.

She said she was carrying out his wishes. I have no way of knowing if that was true or not, but that is massively different, even if delusional, to despatching someone because they don't meet a bogus idea of what a person should be. I wastotally against medicsfightingformy friend to give permission for her Dad'slife to be ended becuase they did see him as a patient /case rather than a human;i'dlike to think a mother looked at the individual beneath the case notes. Becuase there are people out there asking to be allowed to die rather than live on, we know that.

Agin I willemphasise I don't think she did the right thing, I think it was a terrible thing but that it was far more complex than a straight forward murder. And accusing me of not valuing disabledpeople'slives becuase I see it differently is just unfair.

"They called for a change in the law to allow the lives of the disabled to be ended as they do not regard what she did as murder but a ' loving and courageous act'.
"

that might be the case in this case I don't know, but a change in the law?? No!

Peachy, if you read the link to the Daily Mail article, a couple of relevant points supplied by the girlfriend will emerge:

1. The mother made a first attempt to kill her son very early on after his accident, at a time when he was showing signs of improvement and the doctors were still suggesting that a near recovery might be possible.

1. She tried to refuse his operations and told the surgeons they were only doing it to enhance their CVs: she was overruled by the father.

1. She kept going on about him being in unbearable pain at times when the girlfriend claims he was calm and sedated.

1. If she did it because of a fear of not being able to care for him- why did she not consult the girlfriend first? She was never given the option of caring for her boyfriend because her MIL sneaked into the ward and poisoned him. How would you have felt if this had been your dh?

If a mother looks beneath the case notes- why should not that equally be the case with a partner? Or do we all think that the lives of our partners should rest forever in the hands of our MILs?

peachy in my mind it has to be treated as pre meditated murder, not a "mercy" killing other wise what will protect other disabeld people?

Cory I did say earlier that I recognised that but I hadseen a different reporting of GF'swishes so do not know which onoe was true.

2shoes I do understand that, but Iamjust trying tolook at one case. The wholeoutcome can be used to helpdisabled peopleoverall becuase there have to be lessons learnedin the details- why werediffernet stories ofoutcome given randomly,do they not know it plays with peoples minds (and I would imagine is they key to deciding not to acceptmedicaljudgement)....what support was in palcetoallow forPTSD and beereavement traumea (I suspect minimal).... arewe running asociety where support is so rarethat somoeone may genuinely feeltheir chances ofaccessing it will be nil....arecarerspalced in a position where they feel that their options are taken by that life route (I amnot saying that was in play here but is relevant)...... if that can be addressed, RL stuff, it ould dofarmore toprotect disabledpeople than making a show of one person.

but you can't look at one case, if you say that is is ok to murder someone, where does it stop?
I thought she wasn't his care and was banned from seeing after her first attempt to kill him

Peachy, this woman has got to be judged on the merits of her case: she cannot get a more lenient sentence because other mothers, who are carers, give way to despair. She was not a carer and there was no reason to believe she ever would be one. The man was grown up, had a girlfriend, and everybody knew the mother was likely to be a danger to him- not likely that she would ever be in a position to assume responsibility for his care.

It is just not on a par with other cases, where judges do take mitigating circumstances into account. The only mitigating circumstance you could possibly come up with here would be if she could be diagnosed with mental illness. But the carer question simply doesn't apply.

But this is a debate forum 2shoes,not apolicy making bureau.I can look at one case, because I dont have details on any others at hand.

I would suggest (and thats all I can do,suggest) that by the time she had made that first attemot the psychologiccal damage was done. Again, that begs a hellof alot of questions about the casedoesn't it? If they really thought she was going to killhim why was she either not in prison or a Psych unit? Becuase once she had been banned from caring, the potentialexistent terror(and agin I dont know) of not knowing what would happen for care would double, surely? It certainly wouldn't have helped.

I amnot a judge on this Cory so I can just look at my personaltake on what was going on,I don't needevidence just theories and a wish to understand.

That's not true Riv.That'swhy we have mitigation writen into the law.

peachy I meant the roayal "you"(like the royal "we") not you personally you can look at what you like.
but 10 out of 12 jurors found her guilty of murder, so having seen all the evidence that must prove something.
IMO she got of lightly.

Oh I buy the line she might have been mentally ill and needed psychiatric care - although I would have thought the defence would have made more of that if so.

I am just responding to those who seem to think the acy was ok even if she was sane because he was disabled. And that it was in some way loving and in his interests to write him off weeks after an accident.