I hope george osborne is wrong about women

[mulberrybush]

radio 4 Today this morning mentioned George Osbournes ideas for promoting Green behaviour. He would give shopping vouchers for recycling.

OK- until you think it through. People who have more, will recycle more, and be rewarded by vouchers to prompt them to buy more!

You can hear the wheels go round. We need women's votes, what do women like- shopping, but they feel bad about shopping too much because they have children and worry about the future, so we'll give them a present which will make them feel it is all ok.

Has he got us right? Are we like this?

or do we want politicians with the guts to tell us that it might be better if we have a little less.

Christ he must think we're thick

Our local council already does this although not in my area...yet.

You could see it simply as:

Reward desired behaviour (recycling).

Punish undesired behaviore (binning rubbish).

Simple.

Bit gimmicky, maybe. And I see a problem when the "reward" becomes seen as an "entitlement", and people feel they are being fined for not recycling.

People in Berkshire apparently receive an average of £130 per year through one of these schemes. I wouldn't say no.

Our rubbish doesn't get taken away unless it is recycled so we would essentially be rewarded for doing nothing.

I suspect it may not be about encouraging women like us to recycle - most of us probably do already simply because it's a good thing to do (or because we'd feel guilty not to...). But more about encouraging people who currently don't do it, but who might be tempted if they think they'll get something back in return - either because they can't be bothered otherwise, or because they find it an additional hassle on top of all the other things they have to do, but a small reward would make it worth fitting into their schedule.

Just because you recieve shopping vouchers for recycling doesn't necessarily follow you will or should spend more just substitute the vouchers and keep the cash on what you would normally spend. Job done.

Well done to the conservatives for giving something back to responsible people, unlike labour who just take and take and take.

mulberrybush - you are being harsh. He did not mention it was aimed at women. Men shop as well.

it is a bollocks idea. ideally we should all prioritise waster reduction before recycling.

I think there should be far more stick and less carrot to encourage people to recycle - it's in all of our interests to do it so 'rewarding' us for good behaviour seems a bit patronising I suppose. Unfortunately it's not a vote-winner to charge people for taking their rubbish away so we have the ludicrous situation of having to reward people for doing what they should be doing anyway. Which doesn't mean I don't agree with the proposal btw, just pissed off with the general public's complete lack of social responsibility which means that measures like this have to be put into place.

I don't think he thinks we're thick at all, what a strange response.

he is repellent though.

we should get him on for a web chat. it would be like the opposite of the charlie brooker one as we queued up to express how stomach churningly revolting we find him

Sounds like a good idea. It's very clear that all the information/educational programmes about recycling simply don't persuade a certain segment of the population to change their behaviour, so they have to be bribed into it. I agree, we shouldn't have to do it, but it will likely work out more cost effective in the long run.
It's all about getting people to make the first step towards a new and different habit... once the new habit is entrenched then perhaps the incnetives will no longer be necessary.

There's a great book called 'Nudge' which is all about these sort of public sector schemes to get people doing what they should do (from the point of view of personal resposnisbility) but don't.

Let's face it, it's just an adult version of the toddler, "reward the good behaviour" idea isn't it.... some people never grow up!

Great example here about how to 'reward' (not necessarily financially) people for recycling....

Bottle Bank Arcade

But as a strategy for preventing harm to the environment it undermines itself, because the benefits gained from increasing recycling are offset (either partially or totally) by the damage done by encouraging people to consume more. If they were serious about green issues there would be better ways to reward people financially, such as money off your council tax, not vouchers, which mean that you will only get any reward if you spend more.
The quickest and most effective way to benefit the environment would be for people to simply buy less, but this would harm the economy so politicians won't (can't?) admit it. I just wish they would be more honest about these two competing priorities rather than pretend that we can spend spend spend and as long as we recycle enough it will all be fine.

Um, perhaps you are reading a little too much in to this. I know that Tories are as popular on here as they are up in my neck of the woods (Scotland) but looking for conspiracies and insults in everything they say or do is a bit New Labour thought police.

I don't see your point Kathy - just because I get vouchers doesn't mean I will spend them. And it depends what the vouchers are for (haven't read the article I'm afraid).

Also, less money spent on council tax will just mean more money to spend on plastic tat.

but if you're ]not going to spend them, you're not going to be motivated by them either, so it's not going to work on you.
And you can't assume everyone would buy more 'stuff' with money - for plenty of people it would go towards clearing debt or paying for essential non-material things they're struggling to afford, like insurance or, er, other taxes....

he's a wanker. i don't need a reason.

Thanks for your intelligent contribution bonjour...

Kathy - I see your point, but I haven't seen anything that says the vouchers are going to be for CheapPLasticTat.com
Would be good if they could be for fruit or veg, or something, but then again, unless it is something that is perceived as valuable for the target audience, then it won't operate as an incentive..

(Perhaps they should be for beer & fags, then all the non-recyclers will kill themselves early, and the problem will be solved sooner??)

LOL Cornflakemum - 'Recycle your waste and get free cabbages!'

Um - I only heard a bit of this (competing with cbeebies) - but the first thing that struck e was - is this a sneaky way to privatise recycling? Instead of kerbside collection - which means only one vehicle doing the run instead of however many households - we have to take our recycling somewhere for it to be weighed/measured so we can earn our tokens?

Cos that doesn't make economic or energy-efficient sense, surely?

And can you imagine the queues....?

Forgot to say, the problem with a reduction off Coucnil Tax, for example, is that it will not be perceived to be as valuable as 'physical' vouchers in the hand.
I know that sounds daft, but I've seen research that shows this. For the sort of people this is aimed at, there is a 'value' attached to vouchers/ coupons etc. Saying 'you will get 10% off your next Council Tax bill' will not be as much of an incentive, even if the monetary value is the same....

Of course, an alternative would be to use public recognition to 'name and shame' - perhaps colour code bins so that as you recycle mroe and more, you get a brinze, silver, and gold bin??!!

And why do the councils want you to recycle more? It's not to 'save' the planet it's because the EU is charging more next year in penalties for landfill per council, it will cost the council's in fines far more than they will give out in vouchers so the more we recycle the less the councils are fined the lower the council tax bills are anyway.

And why is the EU is charging more next year in penalties for landfill per council?

Er... it's because it's one of a number of ways to reduce landfill, and make a (small) impact towards saving the planet...

It's all towards the same end goal...
how you get there becomes a bit pedantic, non?