David Nutt tells it how it is and is sacked

[Jux]

So the Government don't like it when one of their advisors actually takes notice of real evidence which doesn't quite accord with their stated policies (even though they say they want debate) and so sack the guy who says "but hang on...."

ceres - ahem I talked about mixing MDMA and LSD further down the thread but no-one picked me up on it.

Am loving UQD on this. Have to agree with him on one point - people who take E are a bit evangelical about it. All that "church of dance" and "god is a dj" stuff! Lol!

Hatwoman I've never done drugs but I was being ironic.

If he wasn't employed by AJ then he couldn't be sacked by him ....

Actually, ecstasy doesn't come in lines, but is not hard to turn into lines. The effect isn't great, which is why you don't see many people doing it. I've only seen it done at the end of one evening, when people didn't want to swallow it and then wait for an hour for it to take effect. (Then another 4 hours to come down)

daftpunk - I gave you information, now you know better. Why resent it?

I am sooooooo looking forward to when the children of the self-styled "E generation" start looking for things to shock their parents with.

coteDAZur.....did i say i resented it..?

i said you don't know every drug dealer in the world....that's all..

i think you're making drug dealing sound like something the womens institute do at weekends.....

I do wonder what other people's perception is of people who take E? Do you imagine they are out every weekend getting Ed up and off their faces?

I know that some people do that, and that in the late '80's to mid 90's there was much more of a clubbing culture, but there are others who might take E occassionally because they are going out for a dance, because they want to experience the things you do while on E, because they are having a fun night out. It's pretty much the same as a night going out drinking isn't it?

DF - good point re: perceptions.
I used to go to outdoor raves and do acid/mushrooms because it made my fire poi sparklier in the same way that I would go to the pub and have a couple of pints because it was a nice way of relaxing when catching up with DH and friends after a week at work.
Equally some of our friends go and atke a couple of Es because they enjoyed dancing and it heightened the experience rather than doing it 'just because' or to annoy their parents or whatever.

UQD - perhaps we'll be able to have sensible open discussions with them based on facts rather than just saying 'drugs are bad mmmkay'. Because most people I know who took/take drugs got the latter and it certainly didn't stop them.

What are you going to say to your children?

UQD - I'm fairly sure my dc are going to join the Conservative party.

the point is it's NOT the same as going out drinking because alcohol is regulated - look at any bottle of alcohol and it will gice you the % of alcohol.

any tablets you buy over the counter or on prescription will give you an exact breakdown of the ingredients.

illicit drugs do not come with this important information.

if you are making an informed choice to take any illicit drug you need to be aware that you do not know, and have no way of knowing, exactly what you are taking.

i am not saying don't take drugs - it is individual choice. what i am saying is be aware of what that choice means and the risks involved - just as you would risk assess anything, like riding a horse, crossing the road, eating saturated fat etc.

most people who take drugs come to no harm. some people will go on to develop a dependence. some people may suffer ill effects after taking illict drugs once. the effects of drug taking is dependent on many factors - who is taking it, what is being taken (may not be what they think), what other substances are being used, frame of mind/emotional state of the user, physical health of the user (e.g. stimulants and heart problems = greater risk, alcohol = stimulants and/or opiates = greater risk).

people need to be aware of the facts, not the myths (from either side of the great divide - the just say no-ers or the i-took-shitloads-had-a-great-time-and-am-fine-ers).

this thread highlights the lack of knowledge from both sides. and i am no drug expert - but am interested in the subject because of personal experience which is why i decided to learn more about illict drugs in general.

@tafka

well that was said about the previous generation - and maybe theone before that too -

apparently what my Gran said about cocaine was 'anyone who was anyone did it' and smoked like a chimney...

which made my mum the most anti-smoking person i know though - though my folks were teenagers in the summer of love with all that entailed...

my parents attitude on drugs was very simple: nothing to excess (as per Aristotle)

and indeed this is not the first generation to take drugs - civilisation hasn't collapsd so far.

i know plenty of grown adults who still take drugs (probably haven't stopped in the years since me & my social life parted company) - i doubt they are doing it because it is 'cool' - more for the hell of it. because cocaine is like a holiday from doubt, and ecstacy gives you the loving feeling, and weed makes you giggle. Sometimes, sometimes its not that good. like the rest of life.

when you make out that all drug users are in some way guaranteed no good, just remember that ...your childrens teachers ...some of them take drugs....so do some of the people you see every day at work.

if you advocate long sentences for people found in possession of drugs - you could be condemning someone you know, who is generally law abiding, aside from the fact that they chose to take drugs at weekends instead of ride horses..(or as well as)

spicemonster. I am going to hold my fingers up in a peace-and-love symbol and say "heyyyy kids, do what you liiiiike, I'm reeeeeealy laaaaid baaasck, yeah? I'm reeeealllly cooooool."

Or possibly not.

I'd agree with much of that ceres, plus there are the issues about where your money is going, and the impact that could have. All good arguments for legalisation (plus think of the tax that could be raised), because bringing in quality control etc would not be terribly hard. However most people are terrible judges of risk, and do what they like regardless of information, or just don't believe it anyway. Personally I think that is where Pr Nutt has a good case to make. If classification is supposed to act as a deterrent then it needs to be credible. Given that the data collected about harm is comparing legally available cigarettes and alcohol to illegal drugs, then I think the quality issues are included (indeed there is a discussion about this in his paper) perhaps if more drugs were controlled rather than illegal the risk would in fact be even lower.

ceres;

some drug takers like risk....all part of the attraction...

daftpunk - that may well be the case. however some people like extreme sports, lots of risk involved which is part of the attraction from what i have seen on documentaries.

the point i am trying to make is that people need to know the facts in order to assess the risks attached to drug taking and be able to make an informed choice to accept those risks or not.

it's evident that a lot of people who take illicit drugs don't actually know the facts/risks involved, although it is also clear that many think they do, which makes drug taking riskier.