Gordon Browns plans for 16 & 17 year old mums?

[BrokenBananaTantrum]

I am watching Gordons speech and he has just said that 16 and 17 year old mums will now not be given council houses and left on there own but will need to go and live in supervised houses.

What do we think about this??

and you really think that these 16/17yr old leave their family home and go straight into a nice little 3 bedroom house with garden?

god these threads get on my nerves

surely it would be a good thing for those young women who do need that support to have it.

Someone said this earlier, but I do think it is that simple

alwayslooking - did I say that? no.

[sigh] I'm so not looking for an argument here. I've said what I know has happened to people around me. I don't proclaim to be omnipotent and know what happens in every little cosy corner of the country, or to be able to comment on the circumstances of every 16/17yr old pregnant girl, or pre-pregnant girl who is about to get it on with her boyfriend.

FGS!!

Can't anyone give an opinion based on personal experience without being always being accused of trying to lump everyone who is/has been/will ever be 16 or 17 and pregnant??

So it's ok to shout the C-word all over this place today, but for someone to offer an observation about a minority of society is a crime now?

To quote myself: "and my peers (being the girls I went to school with)" Not once did I mention anybody outside of the group I am speaking of. Being from an area with one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in the country I unfortunately see a lot of the girls who are doing it for the free housing, and yes they get free flats and a few have actual houses now. They boast about it quite happily as they drink with their kids doing whatever whilst in the pub, ignoring them for hours on end until the landlord kicks them all out. This is because they've always been told in life to not expect anything better, and have been raised to believe that they are not worth anything more so they are proud to try compete for the biggest council housing that is supplied to them.

On the other hand, I know about 3 of them who accidentally had children young, took a year out and went back into education to get out of the benefits system. They are the minority in my area unfortunately, and the government does not give any incentive for them to go out and work.

I'm from a really dodgy area of Essex where everything is beyond screwed over. You meet someone you went to school with and they get surprised if you haven't had a kid yet. I really feel for the young Mum's here who are trying, because they are not given any help what-so-ever and not encouraged to do anything to further their educations. Even the authorities in this have given up on them.

And what of the boys that get these girls pregnant? A pat on the ack and a lollypop?

If the girls must go into 'homes' then the boys should be placed into boardstals and have 'male' chasity belts on them.

err no, they usually have to pay child maintenance money before they have even sorted out their education or career

Perhaps this thread needs to be split in two - for those who would like to offer their competetive stories about who has heard the worst story about young mothers breeding for council housing, and those who would like to discuss the social ramifications of housing a load of young mothers together and where this will lead.

Joke.

Toosh - fair enough you say you weren't making sweeping statements, however your 'overrun with their offspring' comment came across as pretty nasty to me.

Wannabe - you make a good point about being stigmatised, and that not necessarily being a bad thing. To be honest there is a helluva lot of stigma about being a teenage mum. My dd is now 13, and people are still pretty astonished to find out that I became a mother so young. I have got a good job as an engineer, have a senior role at work. When people find out I have a teenager and work out the sums, they do look at me in astonishment, have even had comments like 'oh what a stupid thing to do, you must really regret it' etc.

Also, teachers, healtcare professionals, most people you encounter on a day to day basis do judge you quite strongly for being a young mother. So being a teenage mum is not 'embraced' as you say. The oppoisite I would think.

well I personally wouldn't go on overheard snippets of conversations heard in a GP's.

I dread to think the impression people must of got of me last year when I talked to friends about "the council paying for a reasonable 3 bedroom house, and the tax credits have just gone up so........(with my strict budgeting) I'd have a little extra money left over each month".

or if people currently hear me talking about the possibility (which I really hope doesn't have to happen) of "me moving out of here with the DS's and claiming housing benefit, so DH can stay here and continue getting mortgage relief so we don't lose the house"

Sorry everyone - the first paragraphs of that last post was meant to sound funny and sarcastic (it did in my head) but it doesn't typed up.

Toosh - I don't want a row either, but I must admit I hgave a chip on my shoulder about this and this thread has hit a nerve. Sorry to come across as a crabby old cow

Anyway, back to the idea, what is going to happen when these teenage mums reache 18 and have (potentially) small children/toddlers. What happens to them then? Are there provisions to house them (in council houses or whatever)? It is a very short sighted plan from that POV.

PLUS - I wouldn't recommend having a baby as a teen and I think it is to be discouraged. Put it this way - I would emphatically NOT want my 13 year old to have a baby at the same age as I had her. It's bloody hard.

And where are they going to get this magical money from Angry? 16 and 17 yr olds don't exactly earn a lot (if working) and I don't see them shepparded into homes and have their freedoms curtailled.

But then it is a 'man's world'.

GetOrf - fair enough, perhaps my turn of phrase was not the most well-chosen.

And I know you were joking, but it's not a competition about who has the worst anecdote. If you look at my original post, I am coming from the stance that this might be a good idea if it puts off those that have kids as a career move. So I am discussing the ramifications of this idea and where it might lead.

I also said it would need to be implemented in such a way as to make sure it was not a punishment for the genuine cases.

I think I am being pretty fair, actually. Deter the ones who are abusing the system, and help those who need it. Simple.

GetOrf - x-posted with you. no worries, me too

alwayslooking - did I mention anything about overhearing things in the GP's? No.

You are making some very large assumptions about me, aren't you? And isn't making assumptions about people the very thing that you have a problem with here? So stop doing it.

I think Brown really needs to give more detail about this plan. It was a sort of single statement in his speech and I was just very surprised by it. I'm not sure how I feel about this.

I have taught young (15 - 16) year old girls who are pregnant and in my experience they have had a supporting parent / parents who have helped them but I know it can be a very isolated experience in some areas where there is a low teenage pregnancy rate. Maybe these houses would be helpful IF they are set up and run properley (sp) but how often does that happen with a government scheme?

I'm worried about this and need more info. Has anyone found out any more that just the stsement he made? Is there info out there about how they are gonna do this?

I know, like I say I am a miserable old cow . I think I just saw that one comment you made and pounced on that.

fgs - where did I say I was referring to your posts?

And hello! But look at the OP:

"Gordon... has just said that 16 and 17 year old mums will now not be given council houses"

Ergo, they were being given houses before, but won't be anymore.

So yes, I think that proves my point, that this does happen.

Right, enough of this silliness, I have a job to do or I don't get paid.

yes in theory they can be given council houses (and yes I am replying to your post now MightyTosh) in reality those that get it are few and far between.

GetOrf -

always - it seemed like you were responding to my posts - apologies if this was not the case .

no - I didn't scroll down because I'm feeling a bit shite right now - sorry.

Am now in a slightly better mood as instead of having to go and cook dinner I just need to chuck some rice in a pan as dinner has just been delivered courtesy of my best friend - home cooked chicken stew - yummy

They need something in place for the fathers too. Supporting the relationship between the parents, whether they are together or not, should happen more often also, to promote them working together to raise the child/ren.

my sister was given a studio flat at the age of 17. She then had another baby very quickly after and was given a brand new 3 bedroom house at the age of 18 so yes it does happen

well Paula she was very lucky then - as she's only actually "entitled" to a 2 bedroom property with 2 young children and herself

This could definitely go a number of ways. Just to name one, I would be worried that the teenage mums will end up jumping too quickly into relationships with dodgy partners, because it will offer them a way out of the teenage mum ghetto. However, I do share the annoyance felt by other posters here at the sense of entitlement expressed by some girls in this position.

Does anyone know what happens in Holland when a teenage girl gets pregnant and doesn't have support from the father? I ask because earlier on the thread there was mention of the theory about teenage pregnancy linked with poor sex education etc. I wonder how this is dealt with in a country notorious for its tolerance of teenage sexual activity and where there is support for 'safe' sex? Is housing provided?

I know girls do get pregnant to get a place to live because someone admitted to me that she didn't want to get a job when she left school so she slept with strangers she met in night clubs until she got pregnant. And this is a 'nice' area and she got on well with her mum, she just didn't want to work and saw a baby as a better alternative. And yes she did get given a lovely two-bedroomed place straight away, where her mum would pop round with shopping or look after the baby while she went out! She might have thought twice if she'd had to share a place with other young mums and do some training to gain qualifications (far too much like work).
Anyway, I've always thought that the worst thing for a teenage mum (who has no support) is to say "here's somewhere to live and some money, off you go and get on with it". How soul-destroying for them to be alone with a baby day after day, with no-one to encourage them or help them plan a better future for themselves. No wonder many of them are soon pregnant again to the first bloke who comes along and tells them he loves them, they are in a very vulnerable position. How much better it would be if they could be in a place where they could have company and support and a chance to carry on with their education or start a career. Probably I'm looking through rose-tinted specs but it could be great, if it was done right.