Boy of 12 returns to new school year as a girl

[5inthebed]

Here. Sorry about the source.

I think 12 is a young age for any child to understand this, so can understand the parents anger at how the school dealt with it. The poor child is already getting bullied.

I think there's a lot of sex role exploration around 3-5. When DS was just four he genuinely believed that if he were to put on a dress then he would be a girl (I'd read in some textbook or other that 4yos often believed this, thought "surely not?" and asked him, and was surprised by the result). Now at 4.7 he doesn't, but still it seems likely that his concepts of gender aren't entirely fixed.

And when my SIL was four she fervently believed that Santa would bring her a willy for Christmas and that she would be a boy. Shortly thereafter her friend Rachel went through a stage of insisting that she was actually a boy and refusing to answer except to the name Philip. Both in their late 20s now and have no apparent transgender issues.

At 12 both of my son's wanted to do lots of things, stay up until 3am, not go to school, spend £200 on a pair of trainers every week, have sleep overs every night of the week, play video games from the moment they woke up, until the minute they went to bed and lots of other ridiculous things.

The kids parents are bonkers.

If this child is really lined up for a sex change then they will be incredibly monitored. It is a very very difficult thing to get done. You have to have referrals from two separate specialists and long complex really quite intrusive assessments. You also have to live completely as the other sex for two years. That means there is always a really difficult period when you are trying your best to be the other sex, but to many people around you just dressing up. I hope this family have gone down the route of referrals etc, and aren't just going it alone, because they have a long long journey ahead of them.

I once had to support someone in getting a new referral to a gender clinic, and as a result saw all their psychological assessments (which I really should not have had access to I feel, as they were very personal), and it was obviously a fairly soul destroying process for what is a significant disorder with major mental health issues associated - although whether these are part of the gender disorder or from the difficult experiences I don't know.

the family must have decided to do this over the summer holidays so they should have sent her to a school where she wasn't known.

Am just going to paste part of an email I sent to someone in my school supporting a trans FTM kid incase it helps anyone:

Been having a think about other organisations that can help:
www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/
Blurb: Mermaids is a support group for gender variant children and teenagers. Mermaids, whose members consist of young trans people and their families, also offers support to parents, families, carers and others by providing information, by being a listening ear, by sharing members' own experiences and by expressing genuine empathy and understanding - sometimes, just knowing that there's somebody else out there who understands how you feel can help.
The primary purpose of Mermaids is to act as a support group for children and teenagers, up to the age of 19, who are trying to cope with gender identity issues. The secondary purpose of Mermaids is to try to raise awareness about gender issues amongst professionals and the general public, campaigning for the recognition and proper acknowledgement of gender identity issues in young people and for the increase and improvement of professional and medical services.

Helpline: 07020 935066 (12 noon - 9pm UK time, when staffed)

Also the: www.gendertrust.org.uk/

and some helpful NHS info
www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Transhealth/Pages/Transyoungpeople.aspx

There is also a specific female to male transgender support organisation www.ftm.org.uk/ but they may only deal with adults (so think Mermaids or gendered intelligence www.genderedintelligence.co.uk/ may be good places to start. And PACE are excellent if you are London based www.pacehealth.org.uk

Oh and the TV program I mentioned- the boy who was born a girl- can be found on this link- great program- www.channel4.com/programmes/first-cut/4od

Also the UK is actually a very good place to be trans- as rights are enshrined in law and trans people can apply for gender recognition certificates enabling them to get passports etc in new gender.

Oh and just wanted to respond to people who think 12 is too young to deal with gender issues- absolutely not. The younger a person finds out about the diversity in life the more likely they are to be accepting of such diversity. I have known about trans people for as long as I can remember (blame having a sociologist mum whose male boss liked to come to work in a skirt and tights to register reaction to gender roles!)
and can honestly say it has never upset me, and its a shame the kids in the school got upset but perhaps if they knew a little bit about gender dysphoria they wouldn't have freaked out. Definitely think the school could have handled it better.

Also Claw3 I doubt very much the parents are bonkers- this will have been an incredibly difficult decision not helped by the media spotlight. If a 12 year old has genuine gender dysphoria then absolutely the sooner the child lives in the gender their brain is the sooner they can adapt to the situations of their new gender. Suicide and self harm is very high in gender dysphoric individuals and this can be reduced once they start treatment for the condition including living as their internal gender. I do speak as someone with a close friend who is trans and I am starting to do a lot more work with the trans community as part of my job.

Thandeka - Obviously we dont have all the facts about this case, so i will have to speculate on face value. Im assuming that the kid is not an hermaphrodite. Perhaps his parents wanted a girl, who knows, but the kid is obviously troubled.

Any parent who supports self mutilation has to be bonkers in my opinion. For example if your son tells you he hates his leg and feels he was born with too many and cant stand to have two legs and feels suicidal. Would you support him having it amputated to make him feel complete and happy or would be telling him perhaps its not such a good idea and getting him some help?

The kid sounds like he needs help, not castration. Children are called children for a reason they are often confused about how they feel and dont always make sound judgements, thats why they have parents.

From what i have read and know from speaking with people who have changed gender ,the child knows from a much earlier age than 12 . It is also a very long process changing gender and living wholly as the new gender is always part of the process ,long before hormone treatment /surgery is considered.

Yes the child is 'troubled' ,they have been born the wrong gender

Well whether you are 'born' the wrong gender or whether its a product of your circumstances and environment is a different thread.

My 5 year old likes dressing up as a cowboy, but i wouldnt change his name by deed poll to John Wayne. He also likes being a pirate by i wouldnt let him poke out his eye so he could wear a patch.

If he wanted to poke out his eye when he was 18, thats a up to him, but at age 12 i certainly wouldnt be encouraging him.

As a young child I wanted to be a boy, right up to around 13/14. I then changed my mind and decided it wasn ice just being a girl. I am not saying that she will definately regret her decision, but I think at 12, you are not really sure about things in life, especially things to do with your own body and mind.
I hope she doesn't regret her decision.

I was allowed, age 12, to change the spelling of my name into an unusual variation, to make me more unique. I was too stubborn to admit my mistake, and it became more embarassing as the years went by. I am still stuck with it now.

12 is far too young to make any decision like this.

www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2645444/Gender-swap-boy-aged-9-is-a-girl.html

Seems to be the all the rage for showing your 'uniqueness'.

Perhaps a new trend is emerging. In my day, you dressed as a punk or a mod. Now days you dress as a girl.

Does anybody remember a documentary about 12 years ago?
It was about a child called Fredd. He was born a girl but wanted to become a boy and go through the whole surgery - penis construction which is not easy. His mum was very supportive and they both travelled to Holland where it (surgery) is more commonplace (or that's the impression the documentary gave). His mum was concerned that if he had to go through puberty, he would end up with serious problems. I remember feeling quite incredulous that both mother and child could be so definite on their decision so early on and I have always wondered what happened to Fredd.

A really tough situation for all.

oh my - diagnosed gender dysphoria absolutely isnt a fashion statement.

On 12 being too young to make a decision like this. No decision has been made- the child will not be allowed surgery for a good while yet. They will have to live at least 2 years in new gender possibly as puberty hormones kick in they may have limited hormone therapy but that will depend on the case. In my opinion a child desperately wanting to live in a new gender needs to be allowed to do so rather especially given it is such a massive step and given the difficulties faced not one a child/parents would chose lightly. Of the young trans people I have worked with all of them have said they would (or even attempted) suicide if they had to carry on in their current gender.

I agree some children do exhibit traits of the opposite gender (eg. tomboys) and then become happy in their actual gender. My primary school best mate Miri decided she was a boy called George until she was about 13 and decided to be happy as Miri- she even planned on having "her breasts chopped off" as soon as they grew but didn't in the end. But in her case her parents let her live as a boy until she chose and she was never diagnosed gender dysphoric and I was hope that psychiatrists experienced in gender dysphoria would be able to tell the difference between a case like my friend and a genuine case. However there have been cases in the past where young people have been given sex changes and then later regretted the situation. Which is why doctors are very careful to not do permanent long term measures until absolutely sure the individual will be better of in new gender.

I suggest some people on this thread watch "the boy who was born a girl" for better understanding of the issues people with gender dysphoria face.

It's not about "wanting" to be the opposite sex! Want only comes into it when you want to be the gender that you know you are but which doesn't match up with your outer appearance and how people treat you.

I agree Lenin, I don't view gender as binary any more- like sexual orientation it is more a spectrum. I am more blokey than DH a lot of the time !

Only really fucking stupid people think gender is binary. Yes, I think a lot of kids 'want to be the opposite gender' in a not-that-serious way and it's important, if it seems to be causing them any distress, to work out what's ctually going on with them given how much of gender is still a social construct. But given that people can be born biologically neither 100% male nor 100% female, why are morons so surprised and dubious about the idea of some people's brains not matching their bodies Children who are genuinely gender-disordered suffer years of anguish and need help.

SGB you're awesome and if it does eventually transpire your DS needs some help in this area- he is pretty darn lucky to have a mum like you to support him.

I don't know what I think.

I find 'wants to ride a pink scooter, wear hair in pigtails' etc so wants to be a girl a bit insulting tbh. You could be a boy who does this. that we have a society where you have to change gender in order to partake in certain activities...

I think 12 is very young.

I think that maybe it isn't such a big deal, and why this need to label as boy/girl anyway? Agree v much that gender is not binary but a spectrum.

I think no need to f=ing announce it in assembly. Surely, then she would have just been another girl in the class? Teachers could sensitively deal with 'rumours' as they arose.

I agree, there's a huge spread with, at one end, people who are 100% happy with their sex, and with the gender roles their society put on them. And at the other end, people so completely unhappy that they feel compelled to have medical treatment to fix something they feel is simply 100% wrong for them.

And in between there are loads of people who are happy with their sex but identify more with the other gender roles, and express that in various ways. Either by living as the opposite sex, or just by being a "tomboy" or a very feminine boy/man - and how we react to those people is very much about society and expectations. Currently, being a woman behaving in a more masculine way is fine, but for a boy to behave in a feminine way is seen as more of a problem.

In many cases, if we allow children to express who they are without pressuring them with too many gender expectations, then they can find ways to be happy with who they are, and hopefully many will not feel they have to have surgery. But there will always be a few for whom that is the only way they can square who they feel on the inside with what is visible on the outside.

When I was at primary school, the girls uniform was a skirt. I was determined to wear trousers, and boys shoes, and have my hair very short. Somehow my parents persuaded the school to let me, and for a few years I looked just like the boys. But, when anyone asked me "are you a boy or a girl", I had no doubt the answer was "girl", and was even surprised that they asked.

For a long time I felt like I was "dressing up" if I wore a skirt, and still wear trousers for most things, though I'm happy to wear a skirt now and then.

I'm glad my parents and school just let me do what I felt was right for me, and didn't either forbid it or send me to psychiatrists as if there was some major problem. I'm in no doubt that I'm a woman, and straight - but I don't think I'd put myself at one end of a binary scale when it comes to gender.

saying you want to be a girl and putting him into therapy are poels arpart SGB

mates nephew had this and jsut turned out gay!!

( and this coming from me who for the late 70s was called Geoff)