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Not intelligent enough to marry- ss at it again

93 replies

atlantis · 12/09/2009 00:33

Social workers banned a young woman from her own wedding in an extraordinary row over whether she is bright enough to get married.
Kerry Robertson, who has mild learning difficulties, was told her wedding was being halted just 48 hours before she was to walk up the aisle with fiance Mark McDougall.
Miss Robertson, 17, had bought her wedding dress and the couple had booked the church ceremony, bought the rings and organised a reception to be held last Saturday.

But two days before they were due to say their vows in front of 20 guests, social services told the bride-to-be that she would have to cancel the big day because she 'did not understand the implications of getting married'.
Yesterday, Miss Robertson, who is five months pregnant, said the decision was cruel.
She said: 'I am still so upset about everything. I know what marriage is. It is when two folks want to spend the rest of their lives together. I love Mark and I want to get married to him.'

Miss Robertson, of Dunfermline, Fife, has been in the care of her grandmother since she was nine months old after her parents were unable to look after her, with her welfare overseen by social workers at Fife council.
In January this year, she met Mr McDougall, a 25-year-old artist from Arbroath. When Miss Robertson became pregnant, they began making wedding plans.

Mr McDougall said their nightmare began last Thursday when two social workers arrived at the flat they have shared for the past four months.

He said: 'We were about to go out and make final arrangements for our wedding when we heard a frantic rapping at the door.

'When we opened it, two social workers burst in and told us that the marriage was illegal because Kerry has learning difficulties and did not possess the capacity to make such a decision.

'Kerry burst into tears. 'But despite arguing with the social workers that we loved one another and didn't want our baby to be born to unmarried parents, they wouldn't budge.'

Under Scottish law, a registrar may refuse to marry a couple if he believes one or both the parties lack the mental capacity to understand what the institution of marriage is about.

In a highly unusual step, the registrar at Dunfermline Register Office refused to sanction the marriage after Fife council wrote a letter of objection.

Mr McDougall claims Miss Robertson's learning difficulties are not severe. 'It's true she is not very academic,' he said. 'But she is nowhere near as stupid as social services are making out.
'She is a loving caring person. She can also read and write, although not very well, and was going to college to catch up.
'I didn't even know she had learning difficulties until we'd been dating for two months.
'At that time, social services said they were pleased we were together and seemed supportive.
'For the first time in her life Kerry was truly happy so we cannot understand what all the fuss is about.'

The couple are concerned that their unborn baby, a boy they have already named Ben, could be taken away if Fife council judges Miss Robertson unable to care for him.
She now faces a psychologist's assessment to determine if she is too unintelligent to get married.
Mr McDougall said: 'We are both going to fight this all the way. We feel the fact we want to get married should be encouraged, not forbidden.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1212867/Youre-intelligent-marry-bride-told.html

What's the betting they are setting her up with the psych evaluation to take the baby away and not allowing her to marry will make it easier for them.

OP posts:
beanieb · 13/09/2009 11:20

they are presumably protecting her?

ilovemydogandmrobama · 13/09/2009 11:21

OK, but I was actually describing a residential home.

beanieb · 13/09/2009 11:34

Oh and I asked my mum, who was a social worker in Child protection and adoption and she says that SS can't just take a baby. there is a very rigorous system which they have to go through and the decision is not Social services alone so it always amazes me that there are so many seemingly bright people on here who believe that SS just take babies from people.

2shoes · 13/09/2009 11:35

adults with downs sydrome.......they are adults first

cyberseraphim · 13/09/2009 17:55

I've only skim read so probably have missed a lot but surely the objections raised would only apply to a civil marriage ceremony ? If you marry in Church in Scotland (Church of Scotland or Catholic) you do not need the permission of the state registrar. I cannot believe either Church would withhold marriage from this couple.

RedAction · 14/09/2009 06:54

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

drlove8 · 14/09/2009 17:52

. just read the other thread, im afraid it puts a new view of things here.
Do you suspect the fiance is "dodgy" ?

RedAction · 14/09/2009 19:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsMuddle · 14/09/2009 20:56

I think the fact that they only met in January and by Sept she is pregnant and they planned to be married would ring alarm bells.

I know it does happen that quickly sometimes, but they will be taking into account her age, the age difference and her learning disability, and checking that she's not being forced into it, and that she's not being abused in any way (see my earlier post).

That's not to say that the man is dodgy in any way, but the SW dept have a duty to ensure that she has the capacity to consent.

johnhemming · 14/09/2009 21:03

The phrase "learning difficulties" covers a very wide range of people and no conclusions should be drawn from that label.

SomeGuy · 14/09/2009 23:25

Some people get pregnant the first night they meet. Nine months is quite a long time for a fertile young woman.

It says "In January this year, she met Mr McDougall, a 25-year-old artist from Arbroath. When Miss Robertson became pregnant, they began making wedding plans. "

which seems to me to ring any alarm bells.

Perhaps it is less common now, but not so long ago any unmarried couple falling pregnant would make swift arrangements for marriage.

Aramis · 23/10/2009 18:36

if McDougal is 'dodgy', he'd be on either the sex offenders register, or have criminal convictions, which presumably would be in the public domain? But they haven't come to light yet...

as regards SS taking kids away: no, theoretically speaking it is quite hard, but considering that the family court nearly always sides with the SS, in practice it's not hard at all.

Aramis · 30/09/2010 13:14

So a year down the line and McDougall and Robertson have been passed with flying colours by the Irish SS

This happens time and time again, that parents in the UK are branded unsuitable, but in any foreign country they cannot understand what the fuss is about.

Hammy02 · 01/10/2010 09:39

Why is the focus on her getting married?? If she has such severe learning difficulties, what kind of start in life is the poor child going to have???

NotWoozy · 02/10/2010 01:00

Aramis Ironically, the Irish SS would be the first to stop them getting married in Ireland, as adults with learning disabilities are not compos mentis under Irish law and cannot give consent to sign the marriage register. The Irish "escape" is not always the easy option it is made out to be in these cases.
Please read this for more information www.inclusionireland.ie/RIGHTOFPEOPLEWITHANINTELLECTUALDISABILITYTOHAVERELATIONSHIPSRESPECTEDUNDERLAWINDOUBT.htm

In reality, families/guardians of those with intellectual disabilities who express a desire to get married can and do (in my experience) exercise the following options:
*Lodge an objection to the marriage with the registrar
*Make a complaint of sexual assault/rape to local guards as person with disability cannot legally give consent to have sex under the Lunacy Act 1871.

It is a legal minefield in Ireland and while I wish the Robertson/McDougall family all the best, it would be imprudent to think they are now in a country where the rights of those less vulnerable are respected in law and protected with adequate resources.
They are not.

NotWoozy · 02/10/2010 08:56

"More" vulnerable, not less, sorry.

sarah293 · 02/10/2010 08:59

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lilyliz · 03/10/2010 20:04

what gets me is the hypocrysy,the disabled(mental and physical are to be treated equally,same as able bodied or minded. So why can't this couple do what any other couple could do and get married.I bet down the line kid will be removed and forcibly adopted there by getting the councils adoption figures up and their bonus for meeting a target from the government.How can youy have a target for adoption kids either get adopted or they don't,more likely don't because of the hoops adoptees have to jump through.

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