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Boys, aged 10 and 11, plead guilty to torturing and sexually assaulting two boys

117 replies

SomeGuy · 03/09/2009 16:24

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/8233822.stm

"The victims first met their attackers as they played football in a park.

The boys were lured away by the brothers, who promised they would show them a toad they had found, but instead they were subjected to a horrific assault.

One of the boys had a sink dropped on his head, the pair had bricks thrown at them and they were repeatedly stamped on.

The nine-year-old managed to stagger to a nearby house to raise the alarm, covered in blood from wounds to his head and arm.

The 11-year-old boy was later discovered unconscious in the nearby wood.

Jean Wright said her 40-year-old son, who then found the badly beaten 11-year-old, was left so traumatised he could no longer walk past the scene of the attacks.

The brothers have each pleaded guilty to robbing one of the boys of a mobile phone and the other of cash.

They also admitted two counts of intentionally causing a child to engage in sexual activity.

The brothers were later charged with attempted grievous bodily harm with intent and making a threat to kill in connection with a separate attack on another 11-year-old boy in Doncaster a week earlier.

The court heard the brothers picked a "discreet" location for the scene of their first attack on the other boy, in trees, by a stream.

But they were interrupted by a passer-by, and a week later chose a "more isolated" place for the attack on the two boys.

The nine-year-old and 11-year-old were led to a large mound of timber, described as a "den", which was hidden from public view, where some of their injuries were inflicted.

The brothers then moved their victims to a second site, at the foot of a 15ft ravine. It was here that a broken sink was used to inflict the more serious head injuries on the 11-year-old"

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/8235661.stm
Also:

"A relative of the boys who carried out the Edlington attacks has told how their mother would lace their food with cannabis to get them to go to sleep.

She recalled how the brothers grew up in a chaotic household watching horror movies from a young age.

The boys would often be up all night and had even set fire to their own wardrobes in their bedrooms, she said.

From the age of about six or seven they used to watch horror movies, Chucky films, the sort that grown-ups daren't watch.

"She [their mother] just sat in the house doing nothing really, she wasn't really bothered.

"The father used to do a lot more for the children than she did.

"He was a tough dad, maybe a little too tough and strict and they rebelled against him.

"If he smacked the boys for being naughty she would just tell them to tell him to F off, it doesn't matter.

"She used to put cannabis in the tea so they could have an early night and she could have a quiet night in.

"My friend said she had walked into the house one day and was totally disgusted because she had caught her putting cannabis on a chocolate cake."

A former police officer described the brothers as habitual troublemakers who were "a cancer" in the local community.

He first came across the boys when he organised a tree planting scheme at Sandall Park in Doncaster in 2006.

"There was a lot of work put in by the volunteers there, but within 20 minutes of leaving the site the entire area was trashed.

"Five hundred pounds worth of plants got pulled up and thrown in the lake. One particular member of that family was responsible.

"That person was identified to me by someone who saw them trashing the plants.

"On one occasion we had it reported to us that at least one member of that family was seen to pick up ducklings in the park and kill them by throwing them against trees."

OP posts:
policywonk · 03/09/2009 20:31

Very good article (from May) in the Grauniad here about the difficulties faced by child protection units.

edam · 03/09/2009 20:33

Councils do tell SS depts to cut their budget which means they will make decisions not to send children to secure units, though. If this case helps to raise public awareness of those sorts of decisions, it can only be a good thing. Because I think most people would be shocked.

londonone · 03/09/2009 20:34

I have worked with a few children who I fully believe are capable of doing such a thing at that age. Some it is down to their background, some have mental health issues. I can think several children in this age group who I believe should be in a secure unit for the safety of the community. Psychopaths and sociopaths do exist and they all start as children, it is often clear to those who work with them that these children are highly dangerous and not really comparable to the majority of children. Some people including children do simply need to be removed fom society i.e locked up, for their own safety and the safety of others, some of these people are children.

SomeGuy · 03/09/2009 21:01

Hmm, interesting article pw.

It seems you can get away with fucking your children up to quite a high degree, as long as they're not being actively beaten up, and even threatening the social workers.

"Andrew, a social worker with 10 years' experience, has to spend the day collecting evidence which will guide whether he recommends that three young boys, aged between four and 10, be removed from the care of their father. He feels very troubled by the looming decision. There is no evidence of physical harm to the children, just long-term, chronic neglect. Their mother is a drug addict and in prison; in her absence, the children have not attended school regularly, are badly clothed and badly fed. Despite this, Andrew believes the father loves his children. It is hard to decide what is best for the boys.

In two years of working with children, he has never yet helped remove a child from its parents, and it is not something he is eager to do. But there is also the violent aggression of the father, whose threatening behaviour has caused Andrew's predecessor to hand over the case."

OP posts:
fifitot · 03/09/2009 21:10

Of course psychopaths and sociopaths exist. The number of children that fall into this category I would suggest is very small. Yes they have mental health issues too. However I would still state that children are not born with mental disorders that make them predisposed to deliberate harm towards others. This is created by their experiences.

However it is easier to rehabilitate a child than an adult and locking them away indefinately is not really helpful to anyone. Not that I am suggesting the kids that committed this crime don't require punishment but society can't wash their hands of kids like this.

The whole nature/nurture debate is probably too big for this thread though.

Sidge · 03/09/2009 21:16

This is just hideous.

I think part of the problem is that secure units for children like this are so few and far between. There is one in our locality that houses ?about 15 young people. The demand for a place there sadly far outstrips supply - a girl we have been working with couldn't attend that unit even though it's 12 miles from home, she was sent to Hull which is about 275 miles away.

Children like these boys are the damaged goods in our society - they are their parents' responsibility but ultimately they fall to the state to care for, which seems ill-equipped to do so.

mrsruffallo · 03/09/2009 21:18

I agree with londonone.
It's not about locking these children up forever, but more an issue of protecting the other children/local community.

londonone · 03/09/2009 21:18

fifitot - Of course they are a tiny minority but they do exist. The latter part of your post suggests that you think that all children can be rehabilitated I would disagree. There is a tiny minority of the population who are violent sociopaths and psychopaths and they cannot necessarily be rehabilitated. Some people do need to be locked up indefinitely.

2shoes · 03/09/2009 22:16

just seen this on the news, thos poor lads that were attacted
terrible

MollieO · 03/09/2009 22:17

Having read the case details today I really cannot understand why the attempted murder charge was dropped. It wasn't a spur of the moment attack, it appears to have been planned. I assume that there are reasons but I do think that the CPS are too ready to wimp out on potentially difficult cases.

dittany · 03/09/2009 22:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HerBeatitude · 03/09/2009 22:24

The sentence available for the GBH with intent, is the same as for attempted murder.

So the victims didn't have to give evidence, but the sentence does not have to be lower.

At least that's what they said on the radio today

edam · 03/09/2009 22:25

So in essence the two perpetrators have got away with attempted murder because they would have insisted on putting their traumatised victims through even more trauma by pleading not guilty and forcing a full adversarial hearing. Bloody hell.

TheCrackFox · 03/09/2009 22:30

Report from the Times

The Times reports that their dad was a violent drunk and their mother couldn't give a toss. They should have been in court too.

Nancy66 · 03/09/2009 22:32

We are all products of our environment - the two brothers were born to scum bag parents and had a shitty, loveless life.

What they did was hideous and I can't begin to imagine how terrified their victims were and how traumatised they will remain.

But being caught is the best thing that could have happened to the two brothers. There's now a good chance they can be turned into decent people - if they hadn't have been charged with this crime they would have probably killed somebody before they were 16.

edam · 03/09/2009 22:38

No doubt the parents' parents were pathetic as well...

What on earth can be done with these appalling children to ensure they don't grow up, leave a young offenders' institute or wherever they are going, only to start attacking more people? How can you keep society safe from them, other than locking them up for ever (which isn't going to happen)?

mamadiva · 03/09/2009 22:43

I was wondering what was happening with this case last week, hope the boys who were attacked are somehow managing to get through this!

I have to admit though whilst part of me does think yes those other boys need to be rehabilitated and give them a chance of a decent life but I am ashamed to say I can't shake the thought that they should be locked up for life because god help the next victims if they don't manage to sort them out before their release!

I do realise that is not the best frame of mind as I say I have mixed feeling about them.

TheCrackFox · 03/09/2009 22:55

I agree that it might be the best thing for these 2 boys to have been caught now, before they actually killed someone. However, I have my doubts as whether they can ever be rehabilitated. I am not normally pessimistic, but jeez, it is just not normal for children to commit crimes like this.

mamadiva · 03/09/2009 23:04

Totally agree Crackfox, if they have already doen something as bad as this does that mean that essentially the damage has been done?

I'm not sure that damage can be reversed as they have had their so called parents ways drummed into them for 10 years, maybe it's too late now.

edam · 03/09/2009 23:06

That's what's so worrying - how on earth can anyone reverse or overcome that early conditioning? All the brain development when they were babies/toddlers/young children was clearly moulded by their horrible parents. Is it possible to undo that?

Lizzylou · 03/09/2009 23:12

OK, I am feeling bad tonight because I sent my 2 boys early as they were misbehaving.
Do you think that the 2 boys who did this ever had someone who tucked them in, nurtured/encouraged/played with/loved them?
How can it be their fault that they ended up this way? Jeez, I worry about my 5 yr old watching Ben 10, and I wouldn't watch a horror film. And lacing their food with cannabis??? My brother was at school with a lad who'd mashed his brains with skunk by the age of 18, giving it to 10 yr olds????
I sincerely hope that they can be rehabilitated and also that the victims can get over what happened to them, but really do feel that there are more than 2 victims in all of this.

londonone · 03/09/2009 23:13

I think lots of people want to believe that anyone can be rehabilitated but the reality is rather different.

Lizzylou · 03/09/2009 23:18

But really, LOndonone, at age 10, surely they can be?
It isn't their fault their upbringing was beyond crap.

mamadiva · 03/09/2009 23:31

No it certainly is'nt their fault Lizzy but considering what they done, because of a crap upbringing but through their own accord, I think they would already have to be pretty messed up.

Noone is blaming them for it well obviously to some degree they are to blame for their actions but the main point is if someone has been raised for 10 years to end up the way they have is it really possible that they are going to sit there and take in from people that it was all wrong and the fact that by 10 a persons mind is developed enough to make up their own mind IE if they don't think they had a crap upbringing how can they reverse the effects of it?

Am I making any sense? I think I am in my head anyway

Callisto · 04/09/2009 08:05

I bet they could be rehabilitated, given enough time and resources. Unfortunately, the state can't look after the other 'normal' children in it's so-called care so I doubt very much these two boys will have anything like the treatment they need.

It is a total disgrace that they are being tried for a lesser crime because the CPS can't ensure that the victims are not further traumatised by the court proceedings. Surely they can be interviewed/cross examined via video link?

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