father killed in pub garden. warning - upsetting. but I am curious about a phrase in the article.

[HecatesTwopenceworth]

here

Where his family describe him as a "loveable rogue". Is that code for wrong 'un? Not that there's any reason to do that to him, and god - in front of his son ffs. What a horrible, horrible thing.

the sun, but quite different in tone seems to have been a jealous ex, which if it's true, suggests that you were very lucky indeed not to be 'this kind of person', liahgen.

DM is also suggesting jealous ex.

Tallulah, perhaps you could please answer a question for me. Do violent gangsters normally moonlight as scaffolders?

and notes the presence of a woman, very upset, talking on a mobile phone saying 'i can't believe he wants me dead'.

seems like the wee boy didn't see it after all, i hope that's true.

yes I read that bit as well Aitch - lets hope he didn't

Speculation doesn't seem quite right somehow. Call me old fashioned but I don't like to (cliche alert) 'speak ill of the dead' (unless absolutely necessary!)

Reminds me of the thread where that tragic couple threw themselves off Beachy Head with their child. The news story drip fed through bit by bit so initially the MN speculation was that this was a suicide pact, and how selfish and evil of the parents to drag their child into it. But as the news story developed it became apparent that the child has died from natural causes and the poor parents were so devastated at their loss, that they killed themselves taking their already dead son with them. How they were misjudged initially! (Sorry if I have upset anyone by reminding them of that tradgedy).

Point is - we don't know what was meant by the term 'loveable rogue'...and it doesn't seem right to surmise and fill in the gaps. The bloke concerned may have been just a regular guy...(but quite frankly, even if he was a dodgy geezer - his murder is still repugnant)

'tragedy'

I think this shows how the media (especially the print media) play with people like a cat with a mouse. Obtaining a quote from someone who has just seen a close relative hacked to death with a machete is intrusive to say the least, and very few people are going to have enough wits about them to give a coherent quote in such circumstances. The media are just waiting for the slip of the tongue or the grief induced harangue.

The following is just a general comment and not given in respect of this story, but I generally go when someone dies who has been a bad lot for most of their lives, and, who to be honest, no-one is really mourning, but all of a sudden they are 'sadly missed', 'best brother/father/mother/son in the world' 'we are all devastated and miss them so much'. As my dear old Dad says - wonder where all the bad people are buried. I think there is too much readiness to jump on the grief bandwagon these days, and I will save my own tears for those who deserve them, in the main for those people with whom I am intimately acquainted and whose passing will leave a gap in my life.

I married him aitch asI was too scared not to.

Yes a situation like this could well have been ours.

Very sad, and yes, all these people are loved by somebody. My ex has older dc's and a mother, sister and family who all know what kind of life he leads but of course they love him.

Hope it's true the boy didn't see. Poor kid. Luckliy my almost 15 yrdd doesn't remember visiting him father in prison. Took me a good few years to escape.

In answer to the original op, I did a mental 'ah' when that phrase appeared in the article. It may not mean criminal and yes it is hard to imagine a father implying that in the circumstances but made me wonder about the social circles he might move in.

Good grief (re. the ex-lover). It's awful anyway, but such a shame that phrase gave people the wrong impression.