Females outperforming males at uni

[monkeytrousers]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8085011.stm

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what depresses me is that at the moment at least it still makes little really difference in the workplace, men still dominate.

I really don't see that Blackduck.

Danae, www.guardian.co.uk/education/2003/apr/17/research.highereducation

When this generation of females are in the workplace things may change Blackduck.

I remember doing sociology A Level and then my degree back in the mid-1990s when studies of gender and education were all about the underperformance of girls. How things change!

MT go read the thread on Rose and M&S lots of stats there about the fact that women are still not even near 50% of top jobs/positions etc. It is still a world that favours men, and underachieveing men still get good jobs, even over women who have achieved more.

Doesn't the female sex out perform the male throughout the entire educational system? I thought that was the case.

Top jobs Blackdyk. This actually is mentioned in the piece. It's all in the bell curve. Women cluster around the average and high average. They out do men there at every turn. But men do better on the extremities - both in negative and positive spectrums. There are more lesser than average men, but there are also more geniuses. That's an emirically observed fact.

The world (well, the western world) actually favoprs women more, on average.

The nature of higher education has changed so massively that the greater success of young women than young men now can't at all be taken as a sign of their greater intellectual or educational attainment.

Higher education has been dumbed down. Massicvely more people attend, lots of lightweight courses, changed assessment methods, tutors having to teach to a standard that would formerly have been attained at A level.

It may be that women are just better than men at spooning in and spouting out the tasks required these days.

If thats what tou wnat to believe DW. The rest of the data basically says that women are, in fact, smarter than the average guy.

I'm not making any point at all about whether the average/cleverest/least-clever woman is cleverer or less clever than the average/cleverest/least-clever man.

Just saying two things: no conclusions can be drawn from the fact that women play the current higher ed system better than men; we have tragically losat the high-quality university system we used to have.

.. no concluisions about intellectual attainment I mean.

I think that male brains are often better in a fight or flight type situation. The traditional university finals where 100% of a degree mark rested on 8 3 hour exams taken over a fortnight favoured men.

The methods of assessment used through out education greatly favour women. It rewards substained work rather than a one off performance. It helps people who do not perform well under pressure.

However many well paid jobs require people to perform well under pressure with no second chances. Prehaps for these sorts of job a high degree classification in a soft subject does not guarentee success in the work place.

If the world (well, the western world) actually favours women more, on average, then why is women's pay lower, on average?

Because its based on an archaic system when women didn't work - or worked less because of leave to have children - when men were the primary breadwinners basically. But looking it as men vs women sometimes gives a fals epicture - becasue who do we all live with? Men. The money is for their familes - not just for 'men'.

Sorry MT, I don't agree. While I accept the figures on educational performance, I think other posters who suggest women still don't do as well in the workplace are right. There is plenty of evidence for women being excluded from middle and senior management roles, earning less etc and fulfilling gender specific roles across the workplace.

But why should I earn less for doing the same job as a man even if I do share house room with one? Port is spot on, women still earn less on average than men.

I don't think women are brighter than men. I think they have, on average, slightly different talents. If the UK could reverse the trend away from the sciences and towards the humanities in higher education (which is a disaster in waiting for the country), we would see men's average performance versus women's increase significantly.

I am not saying you should Bd.

then what are you saying

It is possible to describe something without advocating it. Just becasue I could say somehting like step children are more likely to be killed by their step-parent doens't mean I agree with it.

MT I too am puzzled. The gender pay gap is still somewhere between 17 and 13 per cent. Not quite sure what you're suggesting.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be equalised. I'm talking about how it got that way to start with.

But then how does it favour women more, on average?

Well it may not favour women in some areas. But it does in others. And over the average, we are certainly near eqaulityt than ever before in history. I dunno if some people think that eqaulity means 'easy' though - life is always going to be hard, very hard sometimes. There was barely a chance to enjoy any of it in the past, save the moment of falling in love, giving birth - then it was back to the grind. I really think we are at a zenith of many things, and we're going to miss the moment cos we're too busy griping. I don't think it will get much better and with the shortages to come it will get much worse.