The MPs are really stressed

[FabulousBakerGirl]

Bless.

The rules were fine.

The MPs took the piss.

Apparently the media, the public and the papers are to blame.

Oh dear.

expatins- yes, I feel quite weak at the moment. Actually aren't we punishing unimplicated local govt folk? Or perhaps they need a kick as well. I hear local givt corruption is rife? Or is that a myth. Doe sthe UK have standards there as well?

Off for a late night jogg to burn some visceral fat [seemingly slim people get this too]

HIGH standards...

'Actually aren't we punishing unimplicated local govt folk? Or perhaps they need a kick as well.'

Are you local government up for election? Our MP, Alan Reid, LibDem, is not standing down in the next election. I don't know about yours.

or is it just European elections this time?

In our region, it's MEP.

"they get to vote on our leglislation"

yes - going into the lobby they are instructed to visit by the whips. Some of them have no idea what they are voting on.

"I consider that to be potentially influential. " Potentially maybe - in real life it's a joke. You get one or two MPs who bring some real expertise to particular subjects. The Committees are where any real work gets done.

"They get to sort the odd problem for locals."

If they can be bothered to send more than a stock letter then sometimes they can. But so can the CAB.

"They can champion causes." Yes - pity so few of them can be bothered.

"Perhaps we don't need MPs at all. Just have Brown/Cameron plus cabinet? " A lot of political commentators reckon MPs are so useless we might as well.

If you are serious about being an MP the Times has been running leaders about how you need to reform the House so that it serves a useful purpose. I don't necessarily agree with them but they are a good starting point for discussion.

tatt- okay we should sack the lot of them and vote for a president then as they are doing anything useful?

I will check out the article about reform thanks

TD - a few do something useful, not many. So we might as well save money by reducing the numbers. Looks like a lot of them will be sacked at the next election, the problem is they will not be replaced with anything better.

tatt- yes, we will replace them by celebs. Darling claimed for tax advice [hmmm] and didn't Cameron claim maximum for his second home (correct me if i am wrong)?

So aren't they all lame ducks?

Now that we have done bankers and MPs who do you think that the press will turn on next?

Quite a lot of the individuals named are already independently wealthy. Surely people like Sir Peter Viggers, Jonathan Djanogly, Francis Maude, the perfectly named Bill Cash, Geoff Hoon and Douglas Hogg never even needed £64k salary, never mind claiming for moat dredging and duck houses. A pre-existing wealthy lifestyle, such as indicated by a flat in Zone 1 and a country pile, and not based on a day job that you have to give up when you are elected, should mean you are means-tested and receive only the bare minimum of allowance.

Would you also means test other public sector workers salary? I am not against it, just trying to think it through.

Who else is as morally bankrupt - maybe journalists .

Claiming for a second home I don't necessarily see as a problem - unless you happen to live within normal commuting distance of London, have no mortgage or something equally immoral. Tax advice - should have paid for it himself.

I rather doubt many celebrities will be elected but some might have higher moral standards and couldn't do any less for their constituents than my MP.

tatt- I detect a deep philosophical/socially conscious being from your discussions? Are all financial intermediaries legitimate targets? Should we dismantle and reconstruct the entire capitalist framework?

Clearly the credit crunch has precipitated the search for the villains. I think we have unearthed some but I also think that we are ourselves to blame for the big bubble that has now busted.

I'm a public sector worker toughdaddy and I don't really need means testing because I get my salary - about half an MP's basic - and am expected to live on it in Greater London and commute daily from an area where I would qualify for second housing allowance if I were an MP.
I don't qualify for additional funding to have my moat fixed, buy DVD players for every room in my home or rent a flat from a close relative.
I have just received a document from my employers relating to my forthcoming Jury Service which spells out which allowances I may claim from the Courts for and which I may not. It is very simple to follow and explains that if I break these rules I will be sacked.

Zinaide- i see what you mean. But there are highly paid public sector workers; are they not? My remark was slightly flippant but I am not sure about means testing people's salaries regardless of how wealthy they are.

TD - why do you think we're all to blame for the bubble? I haven't been throwing money at people who clearly couldn't afford to pay it back nor have I been borowing it when I couldn't pay it back. So how am I part of the cause of the bubble?

Still thinking about the capitalist framework because I don't think I'm philosphical enough to come up with something to replace it. Can any sytem be devised to cope with greed and amorality?

tatt- Ultimately, most of us (maybe not you) are consumer driven. It is not so much blame but we all enjoyed the fruits of a credit driven capitalist economy. Bubbles followed by corrections will happen every few decades because credit will flow into certain areas at time. New regulation can stop that type of bubble recurring but can't guarantee that new instruments and new areas wouldn't blow up. Even after dot com boom and bust; it still looks like much money goes into unprofitable internet business. Can Facebook generate the sort of revenue to support it's market value? The banking recession was extraordinary because the whole economy depends on credit hence why the govts had no choice but to keep banks afloat.

Th regulators did have a control to measure bank risk but it was flawed. New measure will be better but still not perfect.

I am rambling now...but unless we vote for more govt intervention into the free market then we will have failure every now and then. Until recently I didn't hear too many people calling for more nationalisation/state intervention?

quite a few people didn't really join the party. Unfortunately I can't see to find figures for those with no debt other than their mortgage, only average debt figures. It wasn't a credit driven economy so much as an economy driven by the suppliers of credit, whose exorbitant salaries pushed up prices for everyone else. And average debts are much higher in London/Sourth East - where people seem to assume that the rest of Britain behaves like them.