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Experts unite to warn parents of bedsharing dangers - new advice from FSID

200 replies

Caz10 · 13/05/2009 20:42

I apologise whole-heartedly if this topic upsets anyone, I really don't mean to. I am just curious to as to people's views on this.

I get the FSID email and this was their headline article.

I understand all the guidelines re if you are a smoker, been drinking etc, but this seeems to advise no co-sleeping AT ALL. I co-slept with my dd (now 18mths) quite a lot - I thought I would do so again if we had a dc2 - but that piece worries me a bit?

Just wondering what others thought?

It seems to contradict the advice coming from eg Unicef

OP posts:
Caz10 · 13/05/2009 22:21

what do you mean LL, that on the sofa is more dangerous? but it's being lumped in alongside the bed as if they were the same?

OP posts:
LupusinaLlamasuit · 13/05/2009 22:28

That's absolutely what it looks like to me (and what I recall from previous research I have read on this issue). I am currently trying to find the publication details for this research so I can look at it in more detail, because I am very with the poster on the FSID website. It is utterly irresponsible to indicate that it is bedsharing alone that creates the independent risk, especially given the small sample they are reporting.

I am almost tempted to start a counter campaign. I wonder how many babies' lives have been saved by bedsharing because an alert breastfeeder picked up on a breathing issue? Hmmm. Or is that research that no-one has done yet? It doesn't mean it doesn't happen though does it?

paisleyleaf · 13/05/2009 22:31

"Surely thefact a lot of children were in their parents' beds just means that lots of people co sleep?"

"Out of 173 babies, 85 had been co-sleeping, 88 had been presumably sleeping on their own in a cot. That's less than half. Either you co-sleep or you don't. Therefore by these figures, surely it's safer to co-sleep? "

Their figures aren't clear nor totally backing up what they're saying.

I imagine this is among most of our worst fears, so is something we pay proper attention to
I'd also like to see more clear statistics re if the parents were following advice re bedding, smoking etc

When my DD was a baby (she's 4) the advice was not to cosleep;not just if you are a current smoker.....but also if you have ever been a smoker.

LeninGrad · 13/05/2009 22:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RambleOn · 13/05/2009 22:34

If you have ever been a smoker? What, like if you stopped 10yrs ago?

Penthesileia · 13/05/2009 22:37

This article seems more balanced. James McKenna has argued, on the basis of his sleep research, that co-sleeping, bf-ing mothers are more alert to their babies' breathing patterns.

LissyGlitter · 13/05/2009 22:39

The smoking thing-My DP smokes and I used to occaisionally fall asleep whilst BF, but I always put her on the opposite side of me from him. Was this ok?

RambleOn · 13/05/2009 22:40

What's 'the prone sleep position'?

Face down?

ilovemydogandMrObama · 13/05/2009 22:41

Co sleeping in a bed or a sofa is a huge difference. what are the statistics on babies who died sleeping on a sofa? I think this should be clarified before anyone makes any changes.

Not just in Japan, but in India and other places, this is the norm. What are the statistics there?

It is natural for a baby to want to be close. It is natural for a mother to sleep with her baby.

I think more information is needed.

LissyGlitter · 13/05/2009 22:47

Also, do the co-sleeping rules apply to toddlers? Because DD quite often shares our bed when we stay over at different places, and often we have had a couple of drinks...I'm pretty sure she would fight us off if we rolled onto her though.

Upwind · 13/05/2009 22:48

I am a bit about all the FSID advice

  • many parents only co-sleep on a bed or sofa if there is a problem, e.g. their baby can't settle. Perhaps because they are unwell. IIRC, when pregnant, I noticed that sharing for the first time was thought to be especially dangerous. I wondered if they were confusing correlation and causality.
  • many more parents bedshare than will admit to it, since it is not seen as the "correct" approach - with baby in the lovely moses basket/crib/nursery as shown in the mother and baby magazines, so stats will be confused
  • when I started co-sleeping, I was so exhausted that I could not safely walk. Co-sleeping meant that both my baby and I got sleep. I do believe it was better than the alternative - leaving her to cry.
LupusinaLlamasuit · 13/05/2009 22:49

Prone means on the front.

paisleyleaf · 13/05/2009 22:52

"If you have ever been a smoker? What, like if you stopped 10yrs ago?"

That's what whatever it was I read at the time seemed to be implying
like you sleep heavier because of it or something.
I don't remember where I read it
and I don't know how much sense it makes

AitchTwoOh · 13/05/2009 22:57

who runs the FSID? it's not a govt thing, is it?it's a private charity i think.

i truly cannot be arsed reading the guidelines. dd2 was 4lbs 1oz when she was born and got smaller before we were let out of hospital. when we got home, the idea of letting her sleep somewhere other than on my chest was simply bonkers. i never dropped off on the sofa, though, that did seem dangerous to me. but on a bed, with tempur pillows that don't move? i can't think of anything better.

chegirl · 13/05/2009 22:59

Although I have had all 3 of my birth children sleep with me as newborns, this stuff does get into your head (well it did mine).

I didnt give it much thought with DD and DS1. 14 years later I did have DS3 in with us but I was quite nervous about it. I was bfing so it seemed odd to keep picking him up and putting him back in his basket after every feed. Baring in mind that newborns feed every few minutes!

I put him on top of duvet on a pillow so he was raised above us. But I suppose this could have caused overheating because of the pillow? It wasnt a squashy one though.

So bloody confusing.

LupusinaLlamasuit · 13/05/2009 23:01

I can't find any evidence of published papers on these topics by these particular authors, though if someone else finds them I'd be interested to read them.

I will await, instead, the findings of this FSID research project, using the large longitudinal sample in the SouthWest which will allow for control groups. It is interesting that FSID do acknowledge that bedsharing has positive outcomes. It will be almost impossible to examine babies saved by bedsharing however.

In the light of this much better methodology, I am rather staggered about the headline grabbing pathology cases...

Bed-sharing and room-sharing
Professor Peter Fleming from the University of Bristol will study the antecedents, short-term and long-term effects of bedsharing, room sharing or separate sleeping by mothers and infants in the ALSPAC cohort.

Mother-baby bedsharing is associated with an increased risk of unexpected infant death, particularly for mothers who smoke or drink alcohol, but little is known of the potential beneficial effects of bedsharing, either in the short-term (e.g. promoting breastfeeding) or the longer-term (behavioural problems during childhood and predisposition to obesity), or of any other potential adverse effects.

ALSPAC has collected unique information on health, growth, development, medical, environmental, social and behavioural factors from pregnancy to the present, in a cohort of 14,000 children born in 1991-2 and their families. Detailed information has been collected on sleep patterns, sleep duration, sleep environment and problems, in the children and their parents.

Preliminary analysis of these ALSPAC data on sleep in infancy and childhood shows that in the first 6 months 33-70% infants shared a bedroom with their mother, and routine mother-baby bedsharing for night time sleep was common throughout infancy and early childhood, varying between 9% and 18%.

Sleep patterns and duration are affected by many factors (e.g. birthweight, breastfeeding, gender), and short sleep duration in infancy is associated with obesity in later childhood. Breastfeeding, despite its association with shorter sleep duration, may offer some protection against later obesity. This is of great potential importance in understanding the current obesity epidemic in children and adults since childhood obesity tracks into adulthood.

The research will use sophisticated statistical modelling techniques to analyse the longitudinal data collected from ALSPAC children and families, to identify factors contributing to parents? choices about bedsharing in infancy, together with any immediate or long term adverse consequences or benefits of bedsharing, room sharing or separate sleeping, for both children and mothers.

The large size and completeness of the data from the ALSPAC cohort will allow the researchers to take account of multiple confounding factors and look carefully at the direction and nature of interactions between common infant care practices (e.g. bed-sharing and breastfeeding).

dongles · 13/05/2009 23:05

Doesn't Japan have one of the highest rates of co-sleeping in the world and also the lowest rates of SIDS.

Any survey that lumps beds and sofas together is seriously flawed imo. They are completely different structures. I would never have slept with any of mine on a sofa, but co-sleeping in a bed from birth has been one of the most pleasurable aspects (for me and the babies) of motherhood for me.

paisleyleaf · 13/05/2009 23:09

The sofas have to have been an accident alot of the time though don't they
I mean where a parent has nodded off
rather than settled down to sleep.

RambleOn · 13/05/2009 23:13

Great link Penthesileia, thanks. Interestingly, I do adopt the position that's described as 'safe' co-sleeping, as it's the best/only position where DS can bf without waking me up!

RambleOn · 13/05/2009 23:18

Yes dongles I agree.

I'm betting Japan also has the highest rate of futons!

CherryChoc · 13/05/2009 23:41

This is such a conflicted subject for me.

On the one hand I can totally understand why they have to take this stance and make blanket statements. Cosleeping can be very dangerous if done irresponsibly.

But on the other hand it makes me very angry. The research is seriously flawed. And parents are too scared to make their bed a safe place to fall asleep during breastfeeding, so they are breastfeeding at night in chairs and on sofas, and still falling asleep. This is much more dangerous, accidentally falling asleep on sofas (which have cracks between cushions, lots of extra cushions etc which can suffocate) or chairs (again baby can become trapped in the arms of the chair or fall onto the floor).

DS is 7 months old and has spent 2 nights of his life ever in a travel cot, the rest of the time he has been beside me or at the very least in a sidecar cot. I wouldn't change it for the world. I've done my own research and I feel it is safe. And I'm absolutely certain that it has helped my success with bf, and that I've got much more sleep this way than I would have done otherwise. Mammals have been sleeping with their young for millennia - we are designed to sleep together. It's our modern bedding and drugs which is the problem and so those are the things you need to be careful about.

Three in a Bed by the way is a fantastic book, well backed up by research, and I found it really reassuring.

foxytocin · 13/05/2009 23:44

sometimes poorly babies are brought to bed by understandably tired and well meaning parents as a way of everyone getting some sleep.

since these parents do not practice co-sleepng as a part of their parenting continuum they would probably not be as responsive to having their baby in bed with them hence increasing the risk.

overtiredness, partly the reason for bringing the baby to bed is a recognised risk factor. parents who practice co sleeping as a part of their normal parenting are usually sufficiently rested even when an ill child is in the family. making their co sleeping safer than the occasional co sleeper.

JulesJules · 13/05/2009 23:52

What CherryChoc said.

mears · 14/05/2009 00:04

I don't htink that the advice is saying no co-sleeping at all. It still mentions high risk groups such as smoking and having been drinking.
I did not co-sleep as such but I breastfed in bed and snoozed at the same time. If i woke i put the baby back in the cot. If I didn't, I found the baby there in the morning. When you have 3 other young children to look after, it is vital you sleep and feed at the same time. I never had time to drink!

RedOnHerHead · 14/05/2009 00:06

This has probaby been said already..... i apologise i havent read the whole thread and its late......

85 out of 173 babies in London area were found in bed or sofa.... so that means 88 were presumably in a cot? doesn't this contradict what they are trying to say?

(If my math is wrong.... again its late

I also agree with the question of how many of these cases involved alcohol etc. I was always under the impression that co-sleeping statistics show that when there is no smoking, drinking etc.... then it is actually safer than cots.